"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You, obviously, are not living out in the rural parts of America, where the 're-wilding' is taking place, and the wolves, coyotes, and feral hogs are over-running the farm and ranch-land here.
Do your 'hood, and our country, a favor - kill a predator today (and tomorrow, and the next day.)
You, obviously, are not living out in the rural parts of America, where the 're-wilding' is taking place, and the wolves, coyotes, and feral hogs are over-running the farm and ranch-land here.
Do your 'hood, and our country, a favor - kill a predator today (and tomorrow, and the next day.)
If you live out in the wilderness, then you should be prepared to deal with the creatures that inhabit that area when necessary, but to think that you can fucking kill everything there because YOU want to live there is about the same mentality that Israel is using today in Gaza.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
The memory of the Heroic Age was eagerly seized by all who could take power, by fair means or foul, but that age could not be recaptured, and despite the temporary improvements... the racial material on which they had to work was of little value, and their efforts bore no fruit after their own demise.
I was raised in the Alaskan "bush." This is an old issue.
If wolves are a factual problem to mankind, who cares as to how they are killed. That's not to sanction aircraft in place of a rifle or a trap, relative to "ordinary" hunting and trapping. For one thing, the aircraft accident rate would go through the already sky-high roof, for 'bush' accidents. To do such hunting requires a slow airspeed -add sharp maneuvering - putting an aircraft on top of a stall-spin scenario at too low an altitude, for successful recovery.
Often, herds of thousands of caribou manage to slip into the bush, undetected, for six months, or more. So to blame wolves for over-kill of the herds is often poorly justified. In reality, wolves can kill caribou like delta-force on a rampage, but nature has her magical way of reliably balancing the wildlife populations.
In the background, the State Fish & Game has historically had near gestapo powers to preclude even the 'ordinary' hunting of any wildlife, add fishing. Arial wolfe hunting was once legal, but has historically been one of the worst offences one can commit.
Sarah may be pissing atop a powerful air vent. (Even with her Chutzpah, she can't piss into the wind.)
Wolves, bears, cougars, and hogs, are not human beings
So? To kill for food is even beyond what some believe in, but is understandable for a native people living in their native land if there IS no other food.
However, to kill for the hell of it because those creatures MIGHT be causing a problem with the "food" animals is beyond sadistic. If there were REAL evidence that predators were killing off a large number of those other animals, then perhaps something might need to be done in order to protect the "food" animals for those who depend on those animals, but to try to play God is beyond pale.
Again, disregard for life leads to what IS happening in Gaza. I doubt there would be the bloodshed going on there that we are witnessing today if the Israelis cared about life as much as the Essenes did (and do).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
1 1/2 pound turtle meat 2 3/4 teaspoon salt, in all 3/4 teaspoon cayenne, in all 6 cups water 1 stick butter 1/2 cup flour 1 1/2 cup chopped onions 2 tablespoons minced shallots 1/4 cup chopped bell peppers 1/4 cup chopped celery 3 bay leaves 1/2 teaspoon dried leaf thyme 2 tablespoons minced garlic 1 cup chopped tomatoes 1/2 cup Worcestershire sauce 3 tablespoons fresh lemon juice 1/2 cup dry sherry 1/4 cup chopped parsley 1/2 cup chopped green onions 4 hard boiled eggs, finely chopped 2 tablespoons chopped green onions 2 tablespoons chopped hard boiled eggs
Directions
Put the turtle meat in a large saucepan with 1 teaspoon of salt, 1/4 teaspoon cayenne and the water. Bring to a boil. Skim off any foam that rises to the top. Reduce heat to medium and simmer for 20 minutes. With a slotted spoon transfer the meat to a platter. Cut the meat into 1/2 inch dice and reserve the liquid. In another large sauce pan, combine the butter and flour over medium heat, stirring constantly for 6 to 8 minutes to make a dark roux. Add the onions, shallots, bell peppers and celery. Stir occasionally and cook for 2 to 3 minutes until the vegetables are slightly tender. Add the bay leaves, thyme and garlic, cook for 2 minutes. Add the tomatoes and the turtle meat. Cook for 5 to 6 minutes stirring occasionally. Add the Worcestershire sauce, the remaining salt and cayenne, the turtle stock (about 6 cups) lemon juice, and sherry. Bring to a boil, reduce heat to medium and simmer for 10 minutes. Add the parsley, green onions, and eggs and simmer for 45 minutes. Garnish with green onions and chopped eggs.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Often, herds of thousands of caribou manage to slip into the bush, undetected, for six months, or more. So to blame wolves for over-kill of the herds is often poorly justified. In reality, wolves can kill caribou like delta-force on a rampage, but nature has her magical way of reliably balancing the wildlife populations.
Exactly. Nature has done quite well on her own for millions of years, I don't think she needs nor wants Man's help.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
As a member of Hunt Fair Chase, A Life Member of GOA, A Life Member of North American Hunting Club.. I am 110% against this type of Hunting.. end of story..
So what are you, one of those "geniuses" who think the Earth and all life on it was created 2000 years ago?
Do you think the world is flat too?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
As a member of Hunt Fair Chase, A Life Member of GOA, A Life Member of North American Hunting Club.. I am 110% against this type of Hunting.. end of story..
Thanks, I'm not a member of all those, but I've hunted a bit in the past just to learn how to do it if need be. I can't see attacking creatures just because they ALSO need to eat, unless there was a very real danger of them killing off vital food supplies for those who truly need it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
A few more years then 2000. Millions is laughable.
Like what, 2090, 3029, 3091? Give me a time frame that YOU think life was around for...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Go read your Bible. Add up all the begats and begats. Go back to the original creation and you have your answer. I haven't counted it up but I know its not millions.
Besides if it was millions of years old where are all the bodies?
I forgot to mention that I've several times unexpectedly walked with wolves in Alaska. (Damned right they scared me!) However, they, like wolverines have no history of attacking humans - the last I knew. I admit that the 'wild' look in their eyes is the epitome of "intimidating."
I'm not aware that wolves are immune to rabies, so the cited history is surprising.
If you have a pet dog; they are in dire peril. I've never heard of a child being attacked by a wolfe; surprising, as true huskies are famous for such - I know from experience and a lot of luck. But, it's not likely that a child would have the comparable exposure to a wolfe, as they would a pet dog.
I don't know the situation out there. I don't think that just killing the wolves for the fun of it would be right. I think that the local people should make their own decisions. They have first hand knowldege and should decide.
I don't know the situation out there. I don't think that just killing the wolves for the fun of it would be right. I think that the local people should make their own decisions. They have first hand knowldege and should decide.
That's the problem here.. this is being done mostly by Out of Stater's, that spend big money, to have the joy of a kill. Most don't even eat the meat nor keep their kill. The last report I got on this issue, was most of the kills, end up dog food.. and that pisses me off to no end.. As that gives Gun Grabbers an in, to use against Hunting and the 2nd Amendment.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
OK, I just saw that this is from the Defenders of Wildlife, they're the hunting world's equivalent of the ANTI DEFAMATION LEAGUE.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Out of Stater's, that spend big money, to have the joy of a kill.
Maybe they can pass a law that if you are out of State and you want to hunt wolves you have to do it with primative weapons. Like knives and home made bows. Or bare hand wolf wrestling would be fun to watch on pay per view.
I don't know the situation out there. I don't think that just killing the wolves for the fun of it would be right. I think that the local people should make their own decisions. They have first hand knowldege and should decide.
The last I was in Alaska, a bear couldn't be legally killed, without its charging an exposed human, or breaking into a home.
At one point, in my home town, somebody got tired of being chased inside by a local bear; did a star-cut on the top of a 55 gallon drum, bent the 'teeth' inwards, then baited it with salmon. The bear took nearly four hours to bleed to death, trying to get the barrel off its neck.
After that, Fish & Game brought in a live-catch bear trap & started hauling the in-town bears off to remote places.
In one case, Fish & Game chartered an amphibious plane (Gruman Goose) to cart a tranquilized bear far away. The tranquilizer started wearing off, en route, & the pilot got so scared that he crashed the plane into the open water, between King Salmon & Kodiak Island. The people got out, but the bear drowned. The pilot was considered for indictment for being party to the death of the bear. A true story!
"In Alaska, anything can happen - and it usually does."
Maybe they can pass a law that if you are out of State and you want to hunt wolves you have to do it with primative weapons. Like knives and home made bows. Or bare hand wolf wrestling would be fun to watch on pay per view.
I use a Compound Bow.. ;-) as for the Wolf Wrestling, I would pay to see that...lol (p.s. my money is on the wolf)
If you don't know what needs to be killed, just let the cockroaches fill up your home, and wonder what to do.
I don't worry about cockroaches, as I keep my house clean.. btw.. they have NOTHING to do with this debate.. it is about a manner of killing/hunting that is immoral.. and the stats, are against a valid argument on behalf of this manner..
Some game is not fit for human consumption, such as bear & wolves. The last I knew Alaska Fish & Game required sport hunting moose & caribou meat to be harvested, often going to charity food providers. That even extended to "road- kill" moose, in particular. Caribou are rarely close to civilization.
However, caribou males killed during mating season take on an odor/taste which makes the meat unfit for even dog food. (The details are gross)
I used to have a dog that was about half wolf. We had to get rid of it because it bit some kid riding by on a bicycle. I liked the dog.
I've always been curious about "half-wolf," as Eskimos laugh at those who leave their dogs out for wolf-mating; they consistently discover scraps of dog fur, bones & blood, after the wolf departs.
Logic suggests that half-wolf is possible, but I've never known of a believable case, save claims of artificial insemination. I don't envy the vet who has to jerk off a wolf!
It could be that the case of timber wolves is different; I can't speak to that history.
The world flat. lol. That is what "scientists used to think. If they had only consulted their Bible and read Isiah they would have known better.
There are plenty of artifacts a million years older than the Bible, long before Isiah (sic) roamed the earth.
January 30th, 2009 @ 4:39am By JULIA ZAPPEI Associated Press Writer
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (AP) - Malaysian archeologists have unearthed prehistoric stone axes that they said Friday were the world's oldest at about 1.8 million years old.
Seven axes were found with other tools at an excavation site in Malaysia's northern Perak state in June, and tests by a Tokyo laboratory indicate they were about 1.83 million years old, said Mokhtar Saidin, director of the Center for Archaeological Research at the University of Science Malaysia.
The group released their conclusions Thursday, and other archeologists have not yet examined the results.
"It's really the first time we have such evidence (dating back) 1.83 million years," Mokhtar said, adding that the oldest axes previously discovered were 1.6 million years old in Africa.
However, other chopping tools, as well as human remains, have been found in Africa that are much older, with some dating back 4 million years, he said.
Geochronology Japan Inc., a lab in Tokyo, calculated the age of the tools by analyzing the rock that covered them, Mokhtar said. The result has a margin of error of 610,000 years, he said.
Some previous discoveries have suggested there were humans in Southeast Asia up to 1.9 million years ago, but those have been disputed, said Harry Truman Simanjuntak, a researcher at the National Research Center of Archaeology in Jakarta.
Simanjuntak cautioned that others still need to investigate claims about the axes' age.
The oldest previous evidence of human existence in Malaysia was stone tools dating back about 200,000 years, found at the same excavation site in Perak.
The archeologists are trying to find human bone remains in Perak, Mokhtar said, but stressed that it might be unlikely because of decay due to warm, humid climate conditions. The oldest bones found in Perak so far have only been about 10,000 years old.
(Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.) AP Scraping Prohibition
I wasn't present. There were no admitted witnesses to the death, Kodiak Brown Bear can let out one hell of a scream; thus the time was noted. When in pain or anger, such as in a fight with another bear, the sound is terrifying - even from a distance. I've heard it from a pissed Kodiak, in a live trap - you instantly check to make sure the trap is holding!
Such traps are usually a four-foot piece of corrugated culvert, blocked at one end, with a sliding trap-door on the other. The release is an electric DC motor - on a timer.
Most often, a Kodiak will return to the same spot, within three days, from 50 miles away - usually staying a greater distance from mankind or being damned quick to run. In the summer, you keep a keen eye open, when around a garbage source, within the limited hours of darkness.
The serious threat is the presence of mom (sow) & cubs - at any time. Been there, done that; I believe in the providence of God! (Another true story!)
Anyone can say anything. Tell me how they came up with this number.
Did you read the article or just get your panties in a wad and zip off a quick response? : )
FROM THE ARTICLE: However, other chopping tools, as well as human remains, have been found in Africa that are much older, with some dating back 4 million years, he said. (Did you catch that, Old Friend? 4 MILLION)
Geochronology Japan Inc., a lab in Tokyo, calculated the age of the tools by analyzing the rock that covered them, Mokhtar said. The result has a margin of error of 610,000 years, he said. (note that the axes in question could be 1.2 Million years old OR 2.4 Million years old)
And, no, not just anyone is saying anything. These are scientists and archeologists who are making the statements and deciding the numbers. These are professionals, not a bunch of bloggers stating opinions.
Anyone can say anything. Tell me how they came up with this number.
My statement stands. You don't even know how they came up with these numbers. You take it on faith. Faith in man. Use your head. There can be no scientific method to determine the age of something allegedly a million years old. They weren't there and there is NO WAY IN HELL to scientifically prove any of these supposed ages in millions of years.
You googled an artlcle that you thought would make your point and expect me to take it as a fact when you can't even tell me how they came up with this number. Ridiculous.
Go read your Bible. Add up all the begats and begats. Go back to the original creation and you have your answer.
Which version, the Hebrew or the English? I can't seem to find where in Genesis the exact year was given of Creation, can you find it?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Anyone can say anything. Tell me how they came up with this number.
The original issue is the matter of proverbial "Mother Nature," implying "life," in general. As to the age of humans, the jury is still out, in my mind.
The end of humans could happen at any time; depraved and un-natural beasts that we are! Hopefully, the beasts of the field and the birds of the air will survive.
How does that 70s song go? "In the year 2525 - if man is still alive, we may find..."
{Lord, oh dear, I'm actually old enough to remember that one? Lucky, I guess I dunno, some times.}
By "dealing with it", I don't mean massive aerial assault, I mean on a case by case basis as the need arises.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Which version, the Hebrew or the English? I can't seem to find where in Genesis the exact year was given of Creation, can you find it?
It doesn't matter. The dates are the same. Show me a contradiction in dates if your not just blabbering.
Or just use the good old King James version. God promised his word would be translated into all tongues. Have faith in your creator. He is not a weakling like some seem to think.
Are you sure you aren't a former mental patient? Or maybe an escaped one?
Let's see;
YOU - needless massacre of innocent creatures. ME - against needless massacre of innocent creatures.
Uh huh. So are you still slapping your mom around and killing puppies to pass the time? Or have you progressed to bigger and better things yet?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
But anyways, Carbon dating is only reliable if you think the rate of decay is a constant. If it isn't a constant then carbon dating may only work reliably for a few hundred years at best. There is evidence the Carbon-14 decay rate is not a constant.
Ok then. Since you claim to KNOW the date, why don't you enlighten us all and tell us.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
There are no innocent creatures. None. Herds have to be thinned out from time to time. I am sorry you do not appreciate this or comprehend why. Animals are not human, treating them as if they are is a mistake.
OK, I just saw that this is from the Defenders of Wildlife, they're the hunting world's equivalent of the ANTI DEFAMATION LEAGUE.
Whether or not that is true, does that make the slaughter of these creatures any less repulsive or senseless? Wolves are the ancient ancestors of the dog, and as such, should be treated with respect.
Or are you ok with shooting dogs from the air as well?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
That's a convenient notion and self-righteous excuse if you plan on killing them.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
God promised his word would be translated into all tongues
Did you know the Hebrew word ADAM means MANKIND and is NOT the name of a man?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You said that earlier. You sound like a broken record player. Anyway Adam is the name of a man. That being so someone probably took his name and used it as the name for mankind. Not that complicated. I'm surprised you didn't figure it out. On second thought no i'm not.
I couldn't find the regulation that allows hunters to hunt from an airplane, please find the regulation that permits it:
Are you now trying to say this does not happen, and is not official State of Alaska policy?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#68. To: FormerLurker, Christine, Jethro Tull, All (#20)
The Sarah Palin bullshit is to be observed within the context that to do arial wolf hunting, in the interest of public safety, mandates that the aircraft are far more of a public threat, than the wolves. Not to mention that the FAA prohibits the actions proposed, even within the context of "public use aircraft" regulations.
If a wolf is far enough away from civilization to be hunted from the air; there is no threat to the public.
That's Sarah Palin and her Tampax thinking. It really is that simple.
I guess I flew the Alaskan "bush" for too many years (15). Makes a fella overly pragmatic and sensible - not very popular, these days.
Only to those who know absolutely nothing about Hebrew and believe whatever bullshit somebody tells them because it makes them feel good.
So again, what DATE DID GOD CREATE THE EARTH? I wouldn't ask if you didn't firmly say you knew what it was.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Anyway Adam is the name of a man. That being so someone probably took his name and used it as the name for mankind.
Uh huh. The people that wrote it didn't mean it was any particular man, it was in fact the word for HUMAN (or HUMANKIND). It's only because some people of limited intelligence needed a nice little fairytale to make them happy that the English translation changed the meaning of the text.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I don't really know the exact date, but I am sure it was a Sunday.
Approx. 6000 years ago is a good estimate though
Do you REALLY believe that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
That's the problem here.. this is being done mostly by Out of Stater's, that spend big money, to have the joy of a kill. Most don't even eat the meat nor keep their kill. The last report I got on this issue, was most of the kills, end up dog food..
Uh huh. Now give us the exact year in terms of BC, as unfortunately your AC era is undefined.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
BTW, did you know that Sumeria was a civilization with cities, agriculture, government, and science around that time? Are you saying the Sumerians popped up magically all of sudden out of nothing?
In fact, the Sumerian civilization can be traced back to 5300 BC.
That's 7300 years ago, and there were people around WAY before them...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#83. To: X-15, Christine, Jethro Tull, Formerlurker, All (#31)
I couldn't find the regulation that allows hunters to hunt from an airplane, please find the regulation that permits it:
The FAA prohibits what's proposed by Sarah - that caps the issue, by itself.
In Alaskan history, many of the 'seasonal' aircraft crashes are from what's termed the "moose stall." A stupid pilot spots a moose, then circles it, oblivious to the fact that the aircraft is flying too low, down-wind, with a visual speed (groundspeed) far more than the actual airspeed, required to keep the aircraft from stalling. Even with quick reflexes, the aircraft ends up stalling and impacting the ground, before achieving functional flying airspeed. Even with the "stall warning" going off, pilots get so mentally and visually focused on the moose, that they don't hear it - so report a handful of surviving pilots & their passengers.
So, Sarah now wants to invent the "wolf stall." (And McCain wonders what went wrong.)
I just defined it. It was the date of creation 0 at creation
Ok, then I say the Earth formed billions of years ago, and life did not all of sudden pop up, it took another billion years or so for sentient creatures to walk the Earth.
In fact, what about all the other worlds being created as we speak? They aren't forming in a day, they are still being formed from gasses. Why doesn't the Bible speak about them, and why THEY aren't forming in a day?
In fact, are you sure you know how long a day is in the eyes of the Creator?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I do find the words "By their fruits ye shall know them" to be spot on, as only hypocrites would claim to be Christlike yet have no problem with killing innocent creatures.
Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Of course you drool over little Pali kids getting WilliePete burns all over their bodies too...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Oh God, you're right. I want to cry - I remember listening to it in a restaurant across from the Army Recruiting Office in Anchorage. That was 40 years ago! Too bad I missed its message, I could have slit my wrists & avoided all this anguish!
If I didn't love you so much, I'd accuse you of cruelty - 40 fuckin' years ago; my God!
Thing is, there are MANY other things to eat. I'm not a vegetarian, YET. But I do feel sorrow over those creatures who live miserable lives being raised in horrific conditions simply to serve as food, and those who die agonizing deaths for whatever reason.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You have MANY reasons not to, and absolutely ZERO reasons why you should.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
But I do feel sorrow over those creatures who live miserable lives being raised in horrific conditions simply to serve as food, and those who die agonizing deaths for whatever reason.
Are you pro-abortion or pro-life ?
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
But I do feel sorrow over those creatures who live miserable lives being raised in horrific conditions simply to serve as food, and those who die agonizing deaths for whatever reason.
Why are cows more worthy then rodents. For farming you have to kill innocent ants, grasshoppers, crickets, and rats among other creatures. Why must they die for you to eat vegetables. Vegetables are for bugs to eat.
Any aerial thinning of wolf packs is handled by Fish and Game and only when necessary.
I don't believe wholesale slaughter to be necessary or morally acceptable. I think if a rancher or farmer has a problem with wolves, they need to get some attack dogs that will guard their stock, and fire upon the wolves when warned by their dogs.
Although you have to wonder about the wisdom of keeping livestock in a wilderness area teaming with wolves in the first place. Perhaps that's what Darwin meant by "survival of the fittest". I don't think he had helicopter gunships attacking wildlife in mind however...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
What do YOU think. I've always been pro-life, and my posting history will bear that out...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I don't believe wholesale slaughter to be necessary or morally acceptable.
What about RAID on wasp nests? Or foggers to kill bugs? What about mowing the grass. I noticed sometimes I kill crickets and grasshoppers. Once even got a baby rabbit.
Why are cows more worthy then rodents. For farming you have to kill innocent ants, grasshoppers, crickets, and rats among other creatures. Why must they die for you to eat vegetables. Vegetables are for bugs to eat.
I have a problem killing any innocent creature. I doubt I'd have a problem killing a creature that attacked me however, no matter what species. As far as bugs, I don't kill them unless they BUG me. In regards to farming, there's usually natural alternatives to pesticides, as well as natural alternatives in eliminating vermin and other pests that damage crops.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
In regards to farming, there's usually natural alternatives to pesticides, as well as natural alternatives in eliminating vermin and other pests that damage crops.
What do YOU think. I've always been pro-life, and my posting history will bear that out...
Excellent !
It's difficult to get behind all the "Save the (blanks)" who can't even defend the basic rights of unborn men and women.
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
But how pro life are you. Do you support the death penalty for abortionists and the "mothers".
Do you support the death penalty for other crimes?
I don't support the death penalty for the mothers, as they are confused and misguided. I do think there would be some moral justification in seeking the death penalty against those who do the misguiding, and who actually perform the "procedure" except in the very rare case of medical necessity.
As far as other cases of the death penalty, I'd support it in cases where the person is truly guilty of cold blooded murder of innocent life, especially when children are kidnapped from their parents, abused, and murdered.
Then again, perhaps a lifetime of torment would suit them better. Perhaps when I'm a bit more spiritually pure I'd condemn the taking of ANY life whatsoever, but I'm not there yet...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Bugs aren't necessarily harmed by tilling the earth. They can usually either fly away or survive the disturbance.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I don't believe wholesale slaughter to be necessary or morally acceptable.
LOL! We are talking about thinning not "wholesale slaughter".
Perhaps you could cure your seemingly irrational hysteria concerning this matter by spearheading a project to repopulate wolves in your area. They roamed most of north America only a few hundred years ago.
When we get crossover into outright worship of the Creation (versus the Creator), please ping me. ;-)
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
That's what I find extremely interesting in terms of the Essenes and their way of life, as it IS in harmony with Nature, and what a truly spiritual person would seek.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
A similar project was considered in my old stomping grounds.
The adults prevailed. ;-)
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
i've never seen charlotte's web, but i could name dozens of shows and movies with animals in which i have cried. i even sobbed when i watched Free Willy. if i had my way, no living creature would suffer or die like in the Garden of Eden.
Please give us all YOUR definition of "a truly spiritual person" if you would.
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
if i had my way, no living creature would suffer or die like in the Garden of Eden.
IIRC, man became a meat eater after Adam and Eve's fall from grace. Could be wrong though.
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I like animals and stuff too. When I fish. I cut them up and I feel kind of bad for them. I cut them up nevertheless. Catfish for example get a nail through the head the filleted on the stump.
They roamed most of north America only a few hundred years ago.
So did the many other animals, who are now practically extinct.
Perhaps one day you'll be reincarnated as one of those creatures, and you can see how life is when your kind are hunted down by helicopter (or other more effective means of aerial flight in the future)...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
What about if a confused and misguided guy goes in a liquor store and kills someone in a moment of bad judgement.
Life penalty. As far as the death penalty for moms, is that what you support?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
IIRC, man became a meat eater after Adam and Eve's fall from grace. Could be wrong though.
No, you have it right. Thing is, that Garden of Eden wasn't necessarily within this realm, nor on this physical world.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
man became a meat eater after Adam and Eve's fall from grace. Could be wrong though.
Think about this. They were naked before the fall. If they hadn't fallen it would always be nice out and the women would always be naked. Damn you Adam.
was it a better world then or were we blissfully ignorant? i know the music was better. :)
I remember it as both - forgive the paradox. WOW, the music was SO great!
"I just dropped in, to see what condition my condition was in - yeah, yeah; ooh yeah..."
War was dangerous and sex was fun; talk about nostalgia!
From "The Big Chill," to "The Great Chill." Man, like where did the freakin' time go? We need to locate Grampa Gump; he always had the correct answers.
Uh, hey! Quit looking at me like that; I don't have no stinkin' answers!
Please give us all YOUR definition of "a truly spiritual person" if you would.
One who has forsaken material desires and devoted him or herself to seeking communication with God through various techniques including prayer and meditation, as well as the rejection of any animal flesh for food.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Perhaps you could cure your seemingly irrational hysteria concerning this matter by spearheading a project to repopulate wolves in your area. They roamed most of north America only a few hundred years ago.
Wolf populations increased because they had a larger food supply. White man's intruduction of small pox wiped out 90% of the native populations. There is speculation that this is why there were so many buffalo on the pains, their prime preditor had died off.
No, you have it right. Thing is, that Garden of Eden wasn't necessarily within this realm, nor on this physical world.
O K there FL. LOL
Pardon me if I consider your 'spiritual musings' with a grain of salt.
I've read a lot of what you've put forward about 'spirituality' and as much work as I need I can still tell that on such matters you are as lost as a goose in a blizzard.
No offense. ;-)
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Think about this. They were naked before the fall. If they hadn't fallen it would always be nice out and the women would always be naked. Damn you Adam.
And if they hadn't succombed to tempation they wouldn't have known lust.
Yes, God's manifest glory in the Garden and on Adam and Even must have been ... glorious.
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I've read a lot of what you've put forward about 'spirituality' and as much work as I need I can still tell that on such matters you are as lost as a goose in a blizzard.
Yet you believe some dude in the sky snapped his fingers and created the world in a day, and all that exists in seven of those days, correct?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I hunt and kill coyotes: canis lupis vs. canis latrans, one's bigger and one's smaller. There's a reason the wolves were exterminated from the lower 48 states: they're KILLERS of livestock and people.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Yes, God's manifest glory in the Garden and on Adam and Even must have been ... glorious.
If there truly was a single man named Adam (which there wasn't according to the actual Hebrew texts), and there was just one female named Eve, did Cain bang his mom, sisters, and/or daughters to make a bunch of babies? Where'd WE come from then if he didn't?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Yet you believe some dude in the sky snapped his fingers and created the world in a day, and all that exists in seven of those days, correct?
I can tell you this as fact: I've met Jesus and know truth.
It's keeping it that I have to give myself to daily.
You are a blind man barking in the dark just to hear your own voice.
Again, no offense.
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I support killing wolves from the air if wildlife biologists say to thin them out. I'd volunteer to pull the trigger on 1,000 wolves if given the opportunity.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Uh huh. I've met God Himself and he said you are deluded, and to tell you so.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I'd volunteer to pull the trigger on 1,000 wolves if given the opportunity.
Then you are a sick fuck.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
If there truly was a single man named Adam (which there wasn't according to the actual Hebrew texts), and there was just one female named Eve, did Cain bang his mom, sisters, and/or daughters to make a bunch of babies? Where'd WE come from then if he didn't?
When you become born again by the Holy Spirit AND I can know in my heart I'm recommitted to serving the truth with all my heart, soul and strength - then let's have a serious discussion. ;-)
It's pointless until then. You just make it up as you go.
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
and it would be a different matter if it were a clean kill every time rather than shooting the poor things in the back causing them to suffer for however long. i realize i'm being idealistic, but it does seem to me that's a particularly horrific method.
Uh huh. I've met God Himself and he said you are deluded, and to tell you so.
Like I said..
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
There's a reason the wolves were exterminated from the lower 48 states: they're KILLERS of livestock and people.
One time years ago I had a dog appear in the middle of the desert who led me to an Indian reservation as night was falling when I was on foot and hopelessly lost with no natural bearings to guide me. I do not doubt animals are highly intelligent, and are more compassionate and caring than most humans.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
and it would be a different matter if it were a clean kill every time rather than shooting the poor things in the back causing them to suffer for however long. i realize i'm being idealistic, but it does seem to me that's a particularly horrific method.
We are certainly on the same page here christine.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
C'mon Rotara, don't cop out, tell us where we came from if there were only one man and one woman. I want to know what YOU think on this...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I'm not copping out; I'm sparing myself the waste of time that occurs while engaging you.
Be it "Man Made Global Warming", ecology, "Spirituality", etc.
You are a God mocker, which is your problem. Not mine.
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
You wouldn't know the first thing about the Holy Spirit if it flew on top of your head. BTW, did you know the term Holy Spirit refers to the feminine aspect of God, where God is the unity of both male AND female, and that is why Genesis states "God created MANKIND in THEIR own image, male and female God created them"?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You do realize that if we didn't kill off a bunch of Bambi-moms every year, all deer would suffer as they over-populated, right?
shhhhh !
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Wolf populations increased because they had a larger food supply.
The same thing happens here from time to time but in some places people depend on the same food supply and these are the areas where some packs are thinned.
I'm still killing coyotes nearly every weekend as long as it's cold weather. I have the FULL support of my local US Forest Service technicians (that's "forest rangers").
People look away when they see an Indian with a wolf-hide draped over their head and it's claws on a necklace around their neck.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Wrong. It's people like you that believe their preacher over their own intelligence and conscience that mock God, as they seek not the Truth, but rely on fairytales to sooth themselves into thinking just because they BELIEVE in something their eternal happiness is guaranteed, and proceed to do whatever they wish since they think they have it all in the bag simply because of that belief.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
The same thing happens here from time to time but in some places people depend on the same food supply and these are the areas where some packs are thinned.
Hence leading to an over population of other animals, leading to death by starvation as THEIR food supplies dwindle.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
People look away when they see an Indian with a wolf-hide draped over their head and it's claws on a necklace around their neck.
Beautiful
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Incidently Rotara, God didn't pen the Bible, MEN did. Those MEN were not always honest, and much of that contained in the Bible has nothing to do with God, but the DESIRES of MEN.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
The wildlife conservation organizations listed below represent the interests of millions of sportsmen and women from across America. We appreciate the complexities in delisting the Northern Rocky Mountain distinct population segment of gray wolves under the Endangered Species Act. We submit these comments in response to the Federal Register notice published on October 28, 2008 at 73 Fed. Reg. 63926.
We support delisting this population and offer the following six principles to guide the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and state wildlife agencies.
1. When wolf populations meet scientific viability criteria for recovery they no longer require federal protection under the Endangered Species Act (ESA). They should be de-listed if recovery plan goals are met and where regulatory mechanisms are in place to adequately manage the species.
2. After the wolf is de-listed, scientifically sound wolf management programs administered by state wildlife agencies should maintain sustainable wolf populations to preclude the need to re-list under the ESA.
3. Reflecting the success of other historic hunter/conservationist-led species recovery programs, wolves should be managed as big game animals in areas designated for wolf occupancy and wolf seasons should be regulated by the states.
4. Where and when hunting is deemed appropriate under state regulations, methods used by hunters must conform to Fair Chase principles.
5. When classified as game animals, wolf populations should be maintained in accordance with the biological and cultural carrying capacities of the habitats they occupy.
6. Management of individual wolves and wolf populations should also recognize the need to balance management objectives with respect for private property and human well-being.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment on this significant regulatory action. Please note that the organizations and individual members of the hunting and sustainable use conservation community may separately submit their own comments in response to the de-listing proposal.
Boone and Crockett Club Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation Dallas Safari Club Houston Safari Club National Shooting Sports Foundation National Wild Turkey Federation Quality Deer Management Association Ruffed Grouse Society Sand County Foundation Wildlife Management Institute
Campfire Club of America Conservation Force Foundation for North American Wild Sheep Mule Deer Foundation National Trappers Association Pope & Young Club Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation Safari Club International Texas Wildlife Association
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
"Innagoddadavida baby, you know that I love you..." Remember?
i don't remember that one?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
of course i realize it. it is a cruel world. i wish i had the power to make it not so. things would look a whole lot different around here were i in control. ;)
I bet the Israelis can list a bunch of groups who support their genocide against the Palestinian people as well...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Didn't catch this well thought out comment of yours. So you're saying the video is fake and people aren't shooting at wolves from aircraft, and that Sarah Palin doesn't support it?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Nope. The band is Iron Butterfly, and they were around since before Woodstock.
I had their original album, in fact, it's still in my collection.
They're pretty much a one hit wonder, this song being that one hit. It featured a 20 something minute drum solo, so they didn't get a whole lot of airplay.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You can't speak ONE word against ANY of those groups the RMEF listed in post #166.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
That's 7300 years ago, and there were people around WAY before them...
According to the Carbon-14 dating method. I suppose you believe that there is nothing wrong with that method. But you also believe man is causing global warming despite the lack of scientific evidence. Stating something as fact without having solid science behind it means very little, unless of course you would rather just have faith that no would lie to you about the accuracy of Carbon-14 dating, as you have faith that no one would lie to you about man causing global warming.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Go argue with the archeologists. I'm sure you've studied this stuff more than they have, eh?
Ubaid period: 5300 – 4100 BC (Pottery Neolithic to Chalcolithic)
Uruk period: 4100 – 2900 BC (Late Chalcolithic to Early Bronze Age I)
Uruk XIV-V: 4100 – 3300 BC
Uruk IV period: 3300 – 3000 BC
Jemdet Nasr period (Uruk III): 3000 – 2900 BC
Early Dynastic period (Early Bronze Age II-IV)
Early Dynastic I period: 2900 – 2800 BC
Early Dynastic II period: 2800 – 2600 BC (Gilgamesh)
Early Dynastic IIIa period: 2600 – 2500 BC
Early Dynastic IIIb period: ca. 2500 – 2334 BC
Akkadian Empire period: ca. 2334 – 2218 BC (Sargon)
Gutian period: ca. 2218 – 2047 BC (Early Bronze Age IV)
Ur III period: ca. 2047 – 1940 BC
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You can't speak ONE word against ANY of those groups the RMEF listed in post #166.
Oh, and why not?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
as you have faith that no one would lie to you about man causing global warming
Pot meet kettle...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
f course i realize it. it is a cruel world. i wish i had the power to make it not so. things would look a whole lot different around here were i in control. ;)
I wish you were Emperor of the Globe, with Cynicon as your PM.
"It is like a trance. So what can break a trance? The only thing that can break the trance is the light of truth." ~ Canadian Philosopher John McMurtry as he comments on the psychological warfare that has afflicted us all
"It is like a trance. So what can break a trance? The only thing that can break the trance is the light of truth." ~ Canadian Philosopher John McMurtry as he comments on the psychological warfare that has afflicted us all
Individually, they do more for wildlife than any other group of Timothy Treadwell wannabe's on the planet.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Didn't catch this well thought out comment of yours. So you're saying the video is fake and people aren't shooting at wolves from aircraft, and that Sarah Palin doesn't support it?
No. I'm saying the article you linked about man not being omnivors is bullshit.
Ok, then I say the Earth formed billions of years ago, and life did not all of sudden pop up, it took another billion years or so for sentient creatures to walk the Earth.
Do you REALLY believe that?
True macro evolution belief is only for die-hard believers who have gone over the edge of reality into the abyss of insanity.
P.S. coyotes have been known to get into watermelons but that doesn't mean they're evolving into cows.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
No. I'm saying the article you linked about man not being omnivors is bullshit.
Says who, you? There is a LARGE body of evidence that indicates man was originally a herbivore, and there is no physiological evidence that man was originally an omnivore. Man has BECOME an omnivore over time, but he wasn't made for that originally.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Horses have INCISORS, are you saying they are meat eaters?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
But anyways, Carbon dating is only reliable if you think the rate of decay is a constant. If it isn't a constant then carbon dating may only work reliably for a few hundred years at best. There is evidence the Carbon-14 decay rate is not a constant.
I just happened to respond to Old Friend poking fun at another, calling them "flat earther" for having a different persepective re: man's time on this earth. I had just read the article re: the axes prior to checkin out 4um. Hence, I thought I would share that millions of years of humans is not so far fetched in the realms of archeology and science.
Nobody mentioned carbon dating of the axes, but rather rock dating. The margin of error on this particular dating was give or take 610K years, not a few hundred years.
Horses have INCISORS, are you saying they are meat eaters?
I can open a beer bottle with my teeth.
"It is like a trance. So what can break a trance? The only thing that can break the trance is the light of truth." ~ Canadian Philosopher John McMurtry as he comments on the psychological warfare that has afflicted us all
True macro evolution belief is only for die-hard believers who have gone over the edge of reality into the abyss of insanity.
Do you think the Earth is the center of the Universe? Apparently you do, as you believe that all that exists revolves around you and your world.
How small can you think? Creation is an ongoing process, and we can see billions of stars in this galaxy alone, each of which is a sun (in case you didn't know what a star was).
Each of those stars (or suns) may well have their own planetary system, and at least a few of those planets amongst those distant solar systems could have intelligent life on them.
Have you never imagined anything other than what you've been told, or beyond what you were taught to think? If it's not dictated to you by a preacher, must it be a lie or impossible?
You are apparently the sort of person who clings to junk science and superstition, while at the same time throwing stones at those who speak of true science. Were you at the bottom of your class in grade school? Did you ever finish high school?
You are irrational and akin to those who believed the world was supported by elephants traveling around in circles.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Hmmm. I wonder what sort of scientific name that would be, brewavore?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Hmmm. I wonder what sort of scientific name that would be, brewavore?
Monkeys don't eat meat, do they?
"It is like a trance. So what can break a trance? The only thing that can break the trance is the light of truth." ~ Canadian Philosopher John McMurtry as he comments on the psychological warfare that has afflicted us all
coyotes have been known to get into watermelons but that doesn't mean they're evolving into cows.
Huh? Is that what you and others believe, that evolution is about coyotes evolving into cows?
Try looking at bird skeletons and then looking at dinosaur skeletons, they are virtually identical. That is what is meant by evolution.
Same goes for dogs from wolves, elephants from wooly mammouths, etc.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
To hell with horses, here's a fur coat made with tanned coyote hides:
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Most are true herbivores, and some are opportunistic omnivores. In other words, most only eat plants and nuts, but some eat bugs, snails, etc. when or if they can find them.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
To hell with horses, here's a fur coat made with tanned coyote hides:
Ever hear of Karma?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Karma: there's a coyote out there that I'm going to kill soon. Hopefully it's hide will be all furred-up and not have any mange. Here's a representative example from my happy hunting grounds:
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
What about if a confused and misguided guy goes in a liquor store and kills someone in a moment of bad judgement.
Wouldn't it be worse for someone to premeditatedly kill their own child with time to think about it.
Yes it would be worse.
Off topic but...
Israel planned its bombardment and slaughter of Palestinians which can be seen by the fact that for 3 months prior to their attack there had been virtually no rocket attacks on Israel by anyone. .
You will receive that which you give, and reap what you sow.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Here's a representative example from my happy hunting grounds:
BTW, do you go into your neighbor's yards at night and poison their dogs? That picture you posted sure looks like a dead dog (German Shepard).
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You really believe this single little chunk of matter is the center of the Universe.
Before I had access to the Internet I thought people such as you existed in the Middle Ages, but not in the 20th century (and of course the 21st century nowadays). I thought only retards and jungle dwellers were as uneducated and totally clueless on such things.
I've seen many things since I first logged onto the net, but that sort of ignorance still shocks me to this day.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
There are a multitude of scientific sources that indicate man was not originally an omnivore, but has all of the physiological traits of a herbivore. I don't care what accusations you make, you're wrong.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
My statement stands. You don't even know how they came up with these numbers. You take it on faith. Faith in man. Use your head. There can be no scientific method to determine the age of something allegedly a million years old. They weren't there and there is NO WAY IN HELL to scientifically prove any of these supposed ages in millions of years.
You googled an artlcle that you thought would make your point and expect me to take it as a fact when you can't e
LOL!! So sayeth you. Let me get this straight........I take it on faith while you hold your Bible up to answer all scientific inquiries. Touche on the 'use your head' tip. So, you think the Dinos were cruising around in the Garden of Eden? Must of been cramped in there.
I understand that humans have a feeble concept of linear time to help them survive. Without that, our feeble little brains might snap.....but God has no such problems to contend with.
Yes, there are scientific methods to date objects, artifacts, stars, galaxies. All sorts of pertinent issues that were mysteriously omitted from the Bible. According to your line of thinking the sun is still revolving around the earth since mere mathematical formulas proved this erroneous line of thinking.
Sheesh, it amazes me that this notion of dating in context to the Bible continues in this day and age. It's comical. How many scientists have been deemed heretics for simply stating the truth......truth that conflicts with linear and literal interpretations of the Bible?
Actually, I have the humility and faith to not put God in the same linear box that humans exit in. What is a week to God, Old Friend? What is a day? What is a moment? An eternity? Please check your Bible and get back to me. I'm not asking about human perceptions here.
Monkeys don't eat meat, do they? Most are true herbivores, and some are opportunistic omnivores. In other words, most only eat plants and nuts, but some eat bugs, snails, etc. when or if they can find them.
Humans have been eating meat since the dawn of the Homo genus. Humans appeared with the advent of a brand-new genus (Homo) ~2.5 million years ago. Humans evolved on the savanna-- a very different environment from the forest home of the great apes. From the very inception of our genus, humans have been eating animal foods. There is overwhelming scientific evidence to support this point. (Some of the evidence is discussed in this and the preceding section; also see Part 1 of the Paleolithic Diet vs. Vegetarianism interview series, available on this site, for additional information and citations.) The diet of some vague prehistoric frugivore that may or may not be an ancestor is irrelevant in light of the status of humans as a new genus with a different diet (i.e., eating more animal foods) and evolving in a different environmental niche.
In contrast to the extensive fossil record evidence of meat in the evolutionary diet, there is virtually no credible scientific evidence of a strict fruitarian or veg*n diet by our prehistoric human (and australopithecine) ancestors.
Sheesh, it amazes me that this notion of dating in context to the Bible continues in this day and age. It's comical. How many scientists have been deemed heretics for simply stating the truth......truth that conflicts with linear and literal interpretations of the Bible?
Actually, I have the humility and faith to not put God in the same linear box that humans exit in. What is a week to God, Old Friend? What is a day? What is a moment? An eternity? Please check your Bible and get back to me. I'm not asking about human perceptions here.
Sadly, Old Friend is not alone in his misguided beliefs. If people like that were basically non-violent, it wouldn't be as troublesome of a thought...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You quote a blog site (an anti-vegan site at that) as your "scientific proof"?
Find me a university that states what you believe, then perhaps I'll concede. Till then...
I could list hundreds of pro-vegan sites that state the opposite of what you posted. I can also post SCIENTIFIC sources.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You really believe this single little chunk of matter is the center of the Universe.
That's not what I was commenting on and you know it. You said "creation is an ongoing process", that is what I find so unbelievable. What is it that you think has been created lately without man doing it? Even then man is only using the resources already in existence, no new matter is being created by man. To believe in macro evolution one must believe that in enough time that the computers of today, which are much less complex than humans, could come into existence without anyone ever making them and programs for them that can do meaningful things such as edit an image could happen by pure chance without anyone actually making them. Sorry, but that kind of faith is WAY beyond my level of faith in anything, including God.
Oh and BTW, that link you posted does NOT dispute any of the physiological evidence that I mentioned, it simply beats down straw men.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You didn't read the site did you. Knew you wouldn't.
It's obvious that YOU didn't, or if you did, you thought it said something that it doesn't.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You said "creation is an ongoing process", that is what I find so unbelievable. What is it that you think has been created lately without man doing it?
New stars, planets, and life on those worlds.
In fact, the very fact that life is constantly recreating itself here on THIS planet each second of each day IS Creation in Progress.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Introduction There are a number of popular myths about vegetarianism that have no scientific basis in fact. One of these myths is that man is naturally a vegetarian because our bodies resemble plant eaters, not carnivores. In fact we are omnivores, capable of either eating meat or plant foods. The following addresses the unscientific theory of man being only a plant eater.
Confusion between Taxonomy and Diet Much of the misinformation on the issue of man's being a natural vegetarian arises from confusion between taxonomic (in biology, the procedure of classifying organisms in established categories) and dietary characteristics.
Members of the mammalian Order Carnivora may or may not be exclusive meat eaters. Those which eat only meat are carnivores. Dietary adaptations are not limited by a simple dichotomy between herbivores (strict vegetarians) and carnivores (strict meat-eaters), but include frugivores (predominantly fruit), gramnivores (nuts, seeds, etc.), folivores (leaves), insectivores (carnivore- insects and small vertebrates), etc. Is is also important to remember that the relation between the form (anatomy/physiology) and function (behavior) is not always one to one. Individual anatomical structures can serve one or more functions and similar functions can be served by several forms.
Omnivorism The key category in the discussion of human diet is omnivores, which are defined as generalized feeders, with neither carnivore nor herbivore specializations for acquiring or processing food, and who are capable of consuming and do consume both animal protein and vegetation. They are basically *opportunistic* feeders (survive by eating what is available) with more generalized anatomical and physiological traits, especially the dentition (teeth). All the available evidence indicates that the natural human diet is omnivorous and would include meat. We are not, however, required to consume animal protein. We have a choice.
The Great Apes There are very few frugivores amongst the mammals in general, and primates in particular. The only apes that are predominantly fruit eaters (gibbons and siamangs) are atypical for apes in many behavioral and ecological respects and eat substantial amounts of vegetation. Orangutans are similar, with no observations in the wild of eating meat.
Gorillas are more typically vegetarian, with less emphasis on fruit. Several years ago a very elegant study was done on the relationship between body size and diet in primates (and some other mammal groups). The only primates on the list with pure diets were the very small species (which are entirely insectivorous) and the largest (which specialize in vegetarian diet). However, the spectrum of dietary preferences reflect the daily food intake needs of each body size and the relative availability of food resources in a tropical forest. Our closest relatives among the apes are the chimpanzees (i.e., anatomically, behaviorally, genetically, and evolutionarily), who frequently kill and eat other mammals (including other primates).
To believe in macro evolution one must believe that in enough time that the computers of today, which are much less complex than humans, could come into existence without anyone ever making them and programs for them that can do meaningful things such as edit an image could happen by pure chance without anyone actually making them.
BTW, I never said that God did not create all that exists, I simply said it did not happen the way ancient desert dwellers described it.
Can't you see that Nature IS the process of Creation? Can't you understand that evolution is but a tiny piece of that Creation, and that Creation itself goes well beyond that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Hence leading to an over population of other animals, leading to death by starvation as THEIR food supplies dwindle.
LOL!! The correct amount of thinning at the correct time prevents this. It's called game management, a centuries old technique that was diligently practiced by many older civilizations as if their very lives depended on getting it right.
This article was shamelessly published in the May/June 1991 edition of the Vegetarian Journal
Introduction
JM> There are a number of popular myths about vegetarianism that have no scientific basis in fact. And, unfortunately, there are many more annoyingly-popular pseudo-scientific myths, masquerading as science, that humans are "omnivores"; those in this article will be refuted.
JM> One of these myths is that man is naturally a vegetarian because our bodies resemble plant eaters, not carnivores. In fact we are omnivores, capable of either eating meat or plant foods. The following addresses the unscientific theory of man being only a plant eater. We will find that JM consistently fails to support his thesis with real science by erroneously substituting cultural practices for scientific facts and conclusions, the most common and fatal error of those falsely claiming than humans are "omnivores".
Confusion between Taxonomy and Diet
JM> Much of the misinformation on the issue of man's being a natural vegetarian arises from confusion between taxonomic (in biology, the procedure of classifying organisms in established categories) and dietary characteristics. Right, these 'classifications' are Linnaean nomenclature which is archaic, out-of-date, and based on insignificant, fragmentary fossilized data alleging to track the human lineage, which should be completely overhauled in light of modern genetic research. JM, a claimed "anatomist and primatologist" at the PhD level, should be aware of this critical fact, and the profound differences between Nature and culture, but we will see that he is not, much to his own embarrassment.
JM> Members of the mammalian Order Carnivora may or may not be exclusive meat eaters. Those which eat only meat are carnivores. This is the crux of the matter: "you will see that taxonomy is more of an art than a science", "that there isn't even solid agreement on which species belong in which orders", "A little confusion is probably a good thing to learn to accept when it comes to classifying animals." So, we see that this non-science and confusion dominate JM's faulty presentation, and it is a primary cause for his false conclusion that "Humans are Omnivores". In fact, search as you will, there is no taxonomical classification as "omnivore".
JM> Dietary adaptations are not limited by a simple dichotomy between herbivores (strict vegetarians) and carnivores (strict meat- eaters), but include frugivores (predominantly fruit), gramnivores (nuts, seeds, etc.), folivores (leaves), insectivores (carnivore-insects and small vertebrates), etc. Is is also important to remember that the relation between the form (anatomy/physiology) and function (behavior) is not always one to one. Individual anatomical structures can serve one or more functions and similar functions can be served by several forms. A little truth has leaked out. These 'classifications' are mere conveniences, not strictly defined in a reasonable, rigorous, scientific manner.
Omnivorism
JM> The key category in the discussion of human diet is omnivores, which are defined as generalized feeders, with neither carnivore nor herbivore specializations for acquiring or processing food, and who are capable of consuming and do consume both animal protein and vegetation. They are basically *opportunistic* feeders (survive by eating what is available) with more generalized anatomical and physiological traits, especially the dentition (teeth). Notice, there is NO useful, meaningful, or even vaguely-scientific anatomical/physiological/biochemical definition of "omnivore", and JM foolishly ignores the inescapable fact that humans are totally incapable of killing, tearing asunder, and consuming raw their prey with their natural, biological equipment, as ALL natural omnivores do! In fact, I have challenged people who adamantly claim that they are "omnivores" for over 35 years to prove they are natural "omnivores" by simply killing and eating raw a small animal with their natural equipment, and none has ever done so to actually test their irrational belief. Not one! JM has made the all-to-common and fatal error in his totally unscientific and unsupportable claims by confusing Nature and culture; a grievous error which most grade school children would not make. Humans are clearly not natural "omnivores". Some are cultural "omnivores", and indeed must rely on cultural artifacts to raise, kill, butcher, cook, disguise with seasonings, cut up, and finally consume their animal prey. Again, the false definition rests on the phrase "capable of consuming"; however, humans have no natural capability to do so. If they did, they would. Thus, relying on an absurd false definition, JM inevitably and inescapably comes to a false conclusion. Another insight into the falsity of this concept rests in the mistaken confusion, and proposed false-identity, of the verbs: to be, and to do. Being refers to our genetic code and its consequences, while doing is totally unrelated and a consequence of cultural programming. Let's examine JM's muddled "thinking" a bit to see how completely absurd, and perhaps intentionally- misleading, the "capable" definition really is. Humans are "capable" of flying through the air; that makes us birds or flying insects, right? Humans are "capable" of traveling under water; that makes us fish or sea worms, right? Humans are "capable" of tunneling through the earth; that makes us earthworms or moles, right?
JM> All the available evidence indicates that the natural human diet is omnivorous and would include meat. We are not, however, required to consume animal protein. We have a choice. Another unintentional admission that we are not natural omnivores; we have a choice; animals, however, do not have any choices, they rely on their genetically-programmed instincts to kill and eat animal prey. Humans have no instincts to do so, in spite of the foolish claims of various Instincto cults. Choices are cultural, not instinctual. How can someone with even a trivial education not understand the profound difference between culture and Nature?
The Great Apes
JM> There are very few frugivores amongst the mammals in general, and primates in particular. Totally irrelevant, we are apes, not "mammals in general" nor random primates. Actually, we are Pongidae, only the horrendous human ego has chosen to elevate ourselves to another, exclusively ours, thus false classification. With a genetic difference of a mere ~1.6% from the chimp, our closest genetic relative, it should be obvious that our diet should be essentially that of the chimp. Clearly, the genetic distances from various, scientifically- indefinable natural "omnivores" would be much more, thus, again, refuting JM's unsupportable claim of "humans are omnivores".
JM> The only apes that are predominantly fruit eaters (gibbons and siamangs) are atypical for apes in many behavioral and ecological respects and eat substantial amounts of vegetation. Whoops - chimps are frugivorous, eating mostly fruit when available, and falling back on leaves when sufficient fruit is not, and JM is claimed to be a primatologist.
JM> Our closest relatives among the apes are the chimpanzees (i.e., anatomically, behaviorally, genetically, and evolutionarily), who frequently kill and eat other mammals (including other primates). "Frequently" turns out to be a self-serving distortion, apparently for the sake of his pre-conceived and false conclusion, and for a "primatologist", it must be intentional. Chimp hunting and flesh-eating is rare, ~1.4% of their diet, not practiced among all adults, as would be required by a true nutritional need, and is clearly cultural, since flesh is used to gain sexual favors --humorously-similar to human dating.
Evidence of Humans as Omnivores Archeological Record
JM> As far back as it can be traced, clearly the archeological record indicates an omnivorous diet for humans that included meat. Our ancestry is among the hunter/gatherers from the beginning. More muddled "thinking". The "archeological record" so referenced is purely self- selecting, thus misleading, since that "evidence" is only produced by cultural processes, which include tool- marked bones and evidence of fire. The true frugivorous, natural, non- tool-using, human would leave NO evidence at all, since all food wastes would be composted into oblivion. Tools produce enduring evidence, raw-food eating humans do not; however, that certainly does not mean they did not exist. They exist today, and produce no long-term "archeological evidence" of their diet in the local ecosystems.
JM> Once domestication of food sources began, it included both animals and plants. Whoops -- once culture is in play, its effects can not be used to assess the natural human. Anthro-apologists like to ignore this critical fact, thus reducing their verbal output to mere exercises in creative writing, certainly not real science.
JM> Cell Types Relative number and distribution of cell types, as well as structural specializations, are more important than overall length of the intestine to determining a typical diet. Dogs are typical carnivores, but their intestinal characteristics have more in common with omnivores. Wolves eat quite a lot of plant material. Totally irrelevant to humans. But, mindless insertion of irrelevancies that sound correct is a common ploy of anthro-apologists in order to created the illusion of scientific credibility.
JM> Fermenting Vats Nearly all plant eaters have fermenting vats (enlarged chambers where foods sits and microbes attack it). Ruminants like cattle and deer have forward sacs derived from remodeled esophagus and stomach. Horses, rhinos, and colobine monkeys have posterior, hindgut sacs. Humans have no such specializations. Again, factual but totally irrelevant to humans, or the "omnivore" issue; this applies to herbivores, not frugivorous humans.
JM> Jaws Although evidence on the structure and function of human hands and jaws, behavior, and evolutionary history also either support an omnivorous diet or fail to support strict vegetarianism, the best evidence comes from our teeth. The short canines in humans are a functional consequence of the enlarged cranium and associated reduction of the size of the jaws. In primates, canines function as both defense weapons and visual threat devices. Interestingly, the primates with the largest canines (gorillas and gelada baboons) both have basically vegetarian diets. Love that self- contradiction.
JM> In archeological sites, broken human molars are most often confused with broken premolars and molars of pigs, a classic omnivore. On the other hand, some herbivores have well-developed incisors that are often mistaken for those of human teeth when found in archeological excavations. Yes, archaeology is confused and mistaken.
JM> Salivary Glands These indicate we could be omnivores. Saliva and urine data vary, depending on diet, not taxonomic group. "Could"? Where is the evidence? Without evidence, "could" and "could not" are identical.
JM> Intestines Intestinal absorption is a surface area, not linear problem. Dogs (which are carnivores) have intestinal specializations more characteristic of omnivores than carnivores such as cats. The relative number of crypts and cell types is a better indication of diet than simple length. We are intermediate between the two groups. More irrelevancies and errors to obfuscate the issue. The surface area of a cylinder IS linearly proportional to the length. We are "intermediate" between a carnivore and another carnivore, so what does that mean?
Conclusion (false)
JM> Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. This is a blatant lie. JM has presented no anatomical definition, or even an attempt to generate a rigorous, testable, anatomical definition of "omnivore"; this is not possible, since the anatomies of various natural omnivores is so diverse that no coherent patterns can be found.
JM> There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. The "vegetarian diet" is generally cooked, is centered on grains and beans, and may include dairy and eggs; this was not a discussion of a "vegetarian diet". Another irrelevant dodge and intentional obfuscation.
JM> For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat- free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns. The "ethical" argument is totally bogus, since there is no objective set of ethics to which one can compare to determine what is more, or less, "ethical" than what. That is, individuals just make up their own ethical standards to suit their purposes of the moment. Hitler did what he did, based on his own personal set of ethics; so does JM.
[Dr. McArdle is a vegetarian and currently Scientific Advisor to The American Anti-Vivisection Society. He is an anatomist and a primatologist.] Clearly unqualified and hopelessly-confused on very fundamental facts and real science. And he has a PhD; that's frightening. Worse, look at some more of his hysterically-emotional nonsense.
This article was originally published in the May/June 1991 edition of the Vegetarian Journal, published by: The Vegetarian Resource Group, P.O. Box 1463, Dept. IN Baltimore, MD 21203 (410) 366-VEGE Sad, really sad. And these people are supposed to be "vegetarian" authorities?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I'm sorry to hear of your delusional state. Hope you get help.
You really should face the mirror when you speak those words.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Can't you understand that evolution is but a tiny piece of that Creation, and that Creation itself goes well beyond that?
Let's put it this way. I would not believe in God before I would buy the story of macro evolution. If believing in God required believing in macro evolution then I would be an atheist.
BTW, do you not see the gestation of a baby, be it human, dog, or sheep, and the birth of that baby as the creation of new life?
Do you not see the seed of a plant growing into a new plant itself as the work of creation?
Or do you think the stork delivers those babies straight from heaven, and the farmers buy their crops at the supermarket?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
If believing in God required believing in macro evolution then I would be an atheist.
Oh, and why is that?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
In a brief glimse, it's highly apparent the author cherry picks his "sources" and does not quote much of anything, but takes an image here and there that doesn't prove a thing and writes a paragraph or two with no real proof of what he's claiming.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I never said that God did not create all that exists
Genesis says God created all things in six days and then he rested on the seventh.
He didn't need evolution to do that. If macro evolution were ever proven to be true, then I could longer believe in God. Macro evolution can't be proved though, of that I am sure.
Milton R. Mills, M.D. | A better and more objective technique...
The Comparative Anatomy of Eating
by Milton R. Mills, M.D.
Humans are most often described as “omnivores.” This classification is based on the “observation” that humans generally eat a wide variety of plant and animal foods. However, culture, custom and training are confounding variables when looking at human dietary practices. Thus, “observation” is not the best technique to use when trying to identify the most “natural” diet for humans. While most humans are clearly “behavioral” omnivores, the question still remains as to whether humans are anatomically suited for a diet that includes animal as well as plant foods.
A better and more objective technique is to look at human anatomy and physiology. Mammals are anatomically and physiologically adapted to procure and consume particular kinds of diets. (It is common practice when examining fossils of extinct mammals to examine anatomical features to deduce the animal's probable diet.) Therefore, we can look at mammalian carnivores, herbivores (plant-eaters) and omnivores to see which anatomical and physiological features are associated with each kind of diet. Then we can look at human anatomy and physiology to see in which group we belong.
Oral Cavity
Carnivores have a wide mouth opening in relation to their head size. This confers obvious advantages in developing the forces used in seizing, killing and dismembering prey. Facial musculature is reduced since these muscles would hinder a wide gape, and play no part in the animal's preparation of food for swallowing. In all mammalian carnivores, the jaw joint is a simple hinge joint lying in the same plane as the teeth. This type of joint is extremely stable and acts as the pivot point for the “lever arms” formed by the upper and lower jaws. The primary muscle used for operating the jaw in carnivores is the temporalis muscle. This muscle is so massive in carnivores that it accounts for most of the bulk of the sides of the head (when you pet a dog, you are petting its temporalis muscles). The “angle” of the mandible (lower jaw) in carnivores is small. This is because the muscles (masseter and pterygoids) that attach there are of minor importance in these animals. The lower jaw of carnivores cannot move forward, and has very limited side-to-side motion. When the jaw of a carnivore closes, the blade-shaped cheek molars slide past each other to give a slicing motion that is very effective for shearing meat off bone.
The teeth of a carnivore are discretely spaced so as not to trap stringy debris. The incisors are short, pointed and prong-like and are used for grasping and shredding. The canines are greatly elongated and dagger-like for stabbing, tearing and killing prey. The molars (carnassials) are flattened and triangular with jagged edges such that they function like serrated-edged blades. Because of the hinge-type joint, when a carnivore closes its jaw, the cheek teeth come together in a back-to-front fashion giving a smooth cutting motion like the blades on a pair of shears.
The saliva of carnivorous animals does not contain digestive enzymes. When eating, a mammalian carnivore gorges itself rapidly and does not chew its food. Since proteolytic (protein-digesting) enzymes cannot be liberated in the mouth due to the danger of autodigestion (damaging the oral cavity), carnivores do not need to mix their food with saliva; they simply bite off huge chunks of meat and swallow them whole.
According to evolutionary theory, the anatomical features consistent with an herbivorous diet represent a more recently derived condition than that of the carnivore. Herbivorous mammals have well- developed facial musculature, fleshy lips, a relatively small opening into the oral cavity and a thickened, muscular tongue. The lips aid in the movement of food into the mouth and, along with the facial (cheek) musculature and tongue, assist in the chewing of food. In herbivores, the jaw joint has moved to position above the plane of the teeth. Although this type of joint is less stable than the hinge-type joint of the carnivore, it is much more mobile and allows the complex jaw motions needed when chewing plant foods. Additionally, this type of jaw joint allows the upper and lower cheek teeth to come together along the length of the jaw more or less at once when the mouth is closed in order to form grinding platforms. (This type of joint is so important to a plant-eating animal, that it is believed to have evolved at least 15 different times in various plant- eating mammalian species.) The angle of the mandible has expanded to provide a broad area of attachment for the well-developed masseter and pterygoid muscles (these are the major muscles of chewing in plant-eating animals). The temporalis muscle is small and of minor importance. The masseter and pterygoid muscles hold the mandible in a sling- like arrangement and swing the jaw from side-to-side. Accordingly, the lower jaw of plant-eating mammals has a pronounced sideways motion when eating. This lateral movement is necessary for the grinding motion of chewing.
The dentition of herbivores is quite varied depending on the kind of vegetation a particular species is adapted to eat. Although these animals differ in the types and numbers of teeth they posses, the various kinds of teeth when present, share common structural features. The incisors are broad, flattened and spade-like. Canines may be small as in horses, prominent as in hippos, pigs and some primates (these are thought to be used for defense) or absent altogether. The molars, in general, are squared and flattened on top to provide a grinding surface. The molars cannot vertically slide past one another in a shearing/slicing motion, but they do horizontally slide across one another to crush and grind. The surface features of the molars vary depending on the type of plant material the animal eats. The teeth of herbivorous animals are closely grouped so that the incisors form an efficient cropping/biting mechanism, and the upper and lower molars form extended platforms for crushing and grinding. The “walled-in” oral cavity has a lot of potential space that is realized during eating.
These animals carefully and methodically chew their food, pushing the food back and forth into the grinding teeth with the tongue and cheek muscles. This thorough process is necessary to mechanically disrupt plant cell walls in order to release the digestible intracellular contents and ensure thorough mixing of this material with their saliva. This is important because the saliva of plant-eating mammals often contains carbohydrate-digesting enzymes which begin breaking down food molecules while the food is still in the mouth.
Stomach and Small Intestine
Striking differences between carnivores and herbivores are seen in these organs. Carnivores have a capacious simple (single- chambered) stomach. The stomach volume of a carnivore represents 60-70% of the total capacity of the digestive system. Because meat is relatively easily digested, their small intestines (where absorption of food molecules takes place) are short&151;about three to five or six times the body length. Since these animals average a kill only about once a week, a large stomach volume is advantageous because it allows the animals to quickly gorge themselves when eating, taking in as much meat as possible at one time which can then be digested later while resting. Additionally, the ability of the carnivore stomach to secrete hydrochloric acid is exceptional. Carnivores are able to keep their gastric pH down around 1-2 even with food present. This is necessary to facilitate protein breakdown and to kill the abundant dangerous bacteria often found in decaying flesh foods.
Because of the relative difficulty with which various kinds of plant foods are broken down (due to large amounts of indigestible fibers), herbivores have significantly longer and in some cases, far more elaborate guts than carnivores. Herbivorous animals that consume plants containing a high proportion of cellulose must “ferment” (digest by bacterial enzyme action) their food to obtain the nutrient value. They are classified as either “ruminants” (foregut fermenters) or hindgut fermenters. The ruminants are the plant-eating animals with the celebrated multiple-chambered stomachs. Herbivorous animals that eat a diet of relatively soft vegetation do not need a multiple-chambered stomach. They typically have a simple stomach, and a long small intestine. These animals ferment the difficult-to-digest fibrous portions of their diets in their hindguts (colons). Many of these herbivores increase the sophistication and efficiency of their GI tracts by including carbohydrate-digesting enzymes in their saliva. A multiple-stomach fermentation process in an animal which consumed a diet of soft, pulpy vegetation would be energetically wasteful. Nutrients and calories would be consumed by the fermenting bacteria and protozoa before reaching the small intestine for absorption. The small intestine of plant-eating animals tends to be very long (greater than 10 times body length) to allow adequate time and space for absorption of the nutrients.
Colon
The large intestine (colon) of carnivores is simple and very short, as its only purposes are to absorb salt and water. It is approximately the same diameter as the small intestine and, consequently, has a limited capacity to function as a reservoir. The colon is short and non-pouched. The muscle is distributed throughout the wall, giving the colon a smooth cylindrical appearance. Although a bacterial population is present in the colon of carnivores, its activities are essentially putrefactive.
In herbivorous animals, the large intestine tends to be a highly specialized organ involved in water and electrolyte absorption, vitamin production and absorption, and/or fermentation of fibrous plant materials. The colons of herbivores are usually wider than their small intestine and are relatively long. In some plant- eating mammals, the colon has a pouched appearance due to the arrangement of the muscle fibers in the intestinal wall. Additionally, in some herbivores the cecum (the first section of the colon) is quite large and serves as the primary or accessory fermentation site.
What About Omnivores?
One would expect an omnivore to show anatomical features which equip it to eat both animal and plant foods. According to evolutionary theory, carnivore gut structure is more primitive than herbivorous adaptations. Thus, an omnivore might be expected to be a carnivore which shows some gastrointestinal tract adaptations to an herbivorous diet.
This is exactly the situation we find in the Bear, Raccoon and certain members of the Canine families. (This discussion will be limited to bears because they are, in general, representative of the anatomical omnivores.) Bears are classified as carnivores but are classic anatomical omnivores. Although they eat some animal foods, bears are primarily herbivorous with 70-80% of their diet comprised of plant foods. (The one exception is the Polar bear which lives in the frozen, vegetation poor arctic and feeds primarily on seal blubber.) Bears cannot digest fibrous vegetation well, and therefore, are highly selective feeders. Their diet is dominated by primarily succulent lent herbage, tubers and berries. Many scientists believe the reason bears hibernate is because their chief food (succulent vegetation) not available in the cold northern winters. (Interestingly, Polar bears hibernate during the summer months when seals are unavailable.)
In general, bears exhibit anatomical features consistent with a carnivorous diet. The jaw joint of bears is in the same plane as the molar teeth. The temporalis muscle is massive, and the angle of the mandible is small corresponding to the limited role the pterygoid and masseter muscles play in operating the jaw. The small intestine is short (less than five times body length) like that of the pure carnivores, and the colon is simple, smooth and short. The most prominent adaptation to an herbivorous diet in bears (and other “anatomical” omnivores) is the modification of their dentition. Bears retain the peg-like incisors, large canines and shearing premolars of a carnivore; but the molars have become squared with rounded cusps for crushing and grinding. Bears have not, however, adopted the flattened, blunt nails seen in most herbivores and retain the elongated, pointed claws of a carnivore.
An animal which captures, kills and eats prey must have the physical equipment which makes predation practical and efficient. Since bears include significant amounts of meat in their diet, they must retain the anatomical features that permit them to capture and kill prey animals. Hence, bears have a jaw structure, musculature and dentition which enable them to develop and apply the forces necessary to kill and dismember prey even though the majority of their diet is comprised of plant foods. Although an herbivore-style jaw joint (above the plane of the teeth) is a far more efficient joint for crushing and grinding vegetation and would potentially allow bears to exploit a wider range of plant foods in their diet, it is a much weaker joint than the hinge-style carnivore joint. The herbivore-style jaw joint is relatively easily dislocated and would not hold up well under the stresses of subduing struggling prey and/or crushing bones (nor would it allow the wide gape carnivores need). In the wild, an animal with a dislocated jaw would either soon starve to death or be eaten by something else and would, therefore, be selected against. A given species cannot adopt the weaker but more mobile and efficient herbivore-style joint until it has committed to an essentially plant-food diet test it risk jaw dislocation, death and ultimately, extinction.
What About Me?
The human gastrointestinal tract features the anatomical modifications consistent with an herbivorous diet. Humans have muscular lips and a small opening into the oral cavity. Many of the so- called “muscles of expression” are actually the muscles used in chewing. The muscular and agile tongue essential for eating, has adapted to use in speech and other things. The mandibular joint is flattened by a cartilaginous plate and is located well above the plane of the teeth. The temporalis muscle is reduced. The characteristic “square jaw” of adult males reflects the expanded angular process of the mandible and the enlarged masseter/pterygoid muscle group. The human mandible can move forward to engage the incisors, and side-to-side to crush and grind.
Human teeth are also similar to those found in other herbivores with the exception of the canines (the canines of some of the apes are elongated and are thought to be used for display and/or defense). Our teeth are rather large and usually abut against one another. The incisors are flat and spade-like, useful for peeling, snipping and biting relatively soft materials. The canines are neither serrated nor conical, but are flattened, blunt and small and function Like incisors. The premolars and molars are squarish, flattened and nodular, and used for crushing, grinding and pulping noncoarse foods.
Human saliva contains the carbohydrate-digesting enzyme, salivary amylase. This enzyme is responsible for the majority of starch digestion. The esophagus is narrow and suited to small, soft balls of thoroughly chewed food. Eating quickly, attempting to swallow a large amount of food or swallowing fibrous and/or poorly chewed food (meat is the most frequent culprit) often results in choking in humans.
Man's stomach is single-chambered, but only moderately acidic. (Clinically, a person presenting with a gastric pH less than 4-5 when there is food in the stomach is cause for concern.) The stomach volume represents about 21-27% of the total volume of the human GI tract. The stomach serves as a mixing and storage chamber, mixing and liquefying ingested foodstuffs and regulating their entry into the small intestine. The human small intestine is long, averaging from 10 to 11 times the body length. (Our small intestine averages 22 to 30 feet in length. Human body size is measured from the top of the head to end of the spine and averages between two to three feet in length in normal-sized individuals.)
The human colon demonstrates the pouched structure peculiar to herbivores. The distensible large intestine is larger in cross- section than the small intestine, and is relatively long. Man's colon is responsible for water and electrolyte absorption and vitamin production and absorption. There is also extensive bacterial fermentation of fibrous plant materials, with the production and absorption of significant amounts of food energy (volatile short-chain fatty acids) depending upon the fiber content of the diet. The extent to which the fermentation and absorption of metabolites takes place in the human colon has only recently begun to be investigated.
In conclusion, we see that human beings have the gastrointestinal tract structure of a “committed” herbivore. Humankind does not show the mixed structural features one expects and finds in anatomical omnivores such as bears and raccoons. Thus, from comparing the gastrointestinal tract of humans to that of carnivores, herbivores and omnivores we must conclude that humankind's GI tract is designed for a purely plant-food diet.
Summary
Facial Muscles
Carnivore
Reduced to allow wide mouth gape
Herbivore
Well-developed
Omnivore
Reduced
Human
Well-developed
Jaw Type
Carnivore
Angle not expanded
Herbivore
Expanded angle
Omnivore
Angle not expanded
Human
Expanded angle
Jaw Joint Location
Carnivore
On same plane as molar teeth
Herbivore
Above the plane of the molars
Omnivore
On same plane as molar teeth
Human
Above the plane of the molars
Jaw Motion
Carnivore
Shearing; minimal side-to-side motion
Herbivore
No shear; good side-to-side, front-to- back
Omnivore
Shearing; minimal side-to-side
Human
No shear; good side-to-side, front-to- back
Major Jaw Muscles
Carnivore
Temporalis
Herbivore
Masseter and pterygoids
Omnivore
Temporalis
Human
Masseter and pterygoids
Mouth Opening vs. Head Size
Carnivore
Large
Herbivore
Small
Omnivore
Large
Human
Small
Teeth (Incisors)
Carnivore
Short and pointed
Herbivore
Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Omnivore
Short and pointed
Human
Broad, flattened and spade shaped
Teeth (Canines)
Carnivore
Long, sharp and curved
Herbivore
Dull and short or long (for defense), or none
Omnivore
Long, sharp and curved
Human
Short and blunted
Teeth (Molars)
Carnivore
Sharp, jagged and blade shaped
Herbivore
Flattened with cusps vs complex surface
Omnivore
Sharp blades and/or flattened
Human
Flattened with nodular cusps
Chewing
Carnivore
None; swallows food whole
Herbivore
Extensive chewing necessary
Omnivore
Swallows food whole and/or simple crushing
Human
Extensive chewing necessary
Saliva
Carnivore
No digestive enzymes
Herbivore
Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Omnivore
No digestive enzymes
Human
Carbohydrate digesting enzymes
Stomach Type
Carnivore
Simple
Herbivore
Simple or multiple chambers
Omnivore
Simple
Human
Simple
Stomach Acidity
Carnivore
Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Herbivore
pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Omnivore
Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
Human
pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Stomach Capacity
Carnivore
60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Herbivore
Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
Omnivore
60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
Human
21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
Length of Small Intestine
Carnivore
3 to 6 times body length
Herbivore
10 to more than 12 times body length
Omnivore
4 to 6 times body length
Human
10 to 11 times body length
Colon
Carnivore
Simple, short and smooth
Herbivore
Long, complex; may be sacculated
Omnivore
Simple, short and smooth
Human
Long, sacculated
Liver
Carnivore
Can detoxify vitamin A
Herbivore
Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Omnivore
Can detoxify vitamin A
Human
Cannot detoxify vitamin A
Kidney
Carnivore
Extremely concentrated urine
Herbivore
Moderately concentrated urine
Omnivore
Extremely concentrated urine
Human
Moderately concentrated urine
Nails
Carnivore
Sharp claws
Herbivore
Flattened nails or blunt hooves
Omnivore
Sharp claws
Human
Flattened nails
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
If believing in God required believing in macro evolution then I would be an atheist.
Oh, and why is that?
Macro evolution does not need a God to occur. So why believe in a God when there would be no reason to do so?
My faith in God is not irrational, and is minuscule compared to the faith people who believe in macro evolution have to have in order to believe it. Belief in macro evolution is irrational.
Genesis says God created all things in six days and then he rested on the seventh. ]
A) Do you read Hebrew? B) Who wrote Genesis? C) How long is a day for God? D) Do you always believe everything written by Jews?
He didn't need evolution to do that.
He didn't need to do it as you wish for him to have done it. It's quite obvious that there is much that you don't understand about how things work, but don't expect God to rely on your lack of imagination in order for Him to do what he does.
If macro evolution were ever proven to be true, then I could longer believe in God.
Again, why is THAT? Is it simply that if God works in ways you don't understand, then there must not be a God?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Macro evolution does not need a God to occur. So why believe in a God when there would be no reason to do so?
Wrong. The very fact that DNA is a blueprint for life indicates that an intelligence beyond our understanding created not only the DNA, but the concept of DNA and the mechanisms for it to behave as it does.
That's nothing compared to the nature of matter, energy, time, and space. For it all to behave as it does, and for life to exist, there has to something beyond dumb luck.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
July 1, 2008 Southern Alaska Peninsula Caribou Herd recovers after aerial wolf control
State wildlife biologists with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game shot and killed more than two dozen wolves from a helicopter last month to help a small caribou herd struggling to survive on the Alaska Peninsula.
It marked the first time since 1985 that ADF&G personnel have shot and killed wolves from the air as part of a predator control plan.
Biologists killed 28 wolves on the calving grounds of the Southern Alaska Peninsula Caribou Herd near Cold Bay, located about 600 miles southwest of Anchorage, to stop what has been a precipitous decline as a result of extremely poor calf survival. In the last six years, the herd has declined from 4,100 caribou to 600. Biologists have counted a total of only six surviving calves in the herd in the past two years.
Wolves from three packs were shot from a helicopter while on or near the calving grounds in late May and early June, according to a press release issued by the department on Friday.
So far, biologists are encouraged by the results of the air strike, which was approved by the Alaska Board of Game in March.
Biologists estimate 63 percent of the approximately 450 calves born this spring survived their first two weeks of life and both pregnancy rates — 90 percent — and weights of newborn calves indicate the herd is healthy, department spokesman Bruce Bartley in Anchorage said.
“That pretty much leaves predation” as the reason for the herd’s decline, he said.
While it’s too early to tell how many calves will survive the summer, most caribou calf mortality occurs during the first few weeks of life, according to the department. Telemetry flights will be flown periodically throughout the summer to document further mortality.
Biologists captured 65 newborn calves to be weighed and fitted with radio collars equipped with mortality sensors so biologists can track them and identify a cause of death if necessary.
“If they survive the summer as we suspect they will, we’ll probably have more calves survive this year than we’ve had the last several years combined,” Bartley said.
The latest figures show wolves are still the biggest killer of caribou calves, however. Of the 24 deaths documented by biologists among radio-collared calves in the first weeks after calving (36.7 percent of the total number of calves), wolves killed seven (10.8 percent) of the radio-collared calves, while bears accounted for five calf deaths (7.6 percent). Another four calves (6.1 percent) were killed by either wolves or bears, but biologists were not able to determine which one. Two calves drowned (3.1 percent) and one died of starvation (1.5 percent). The other five (7.6 percent) died of undetermined causes.
Though the herd ranges primarily within the Izembek National Wildlife Refuge and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service does not permit wolf control on federal lands in Alaska, its calving grounds are on state lands and both the department and game board felt the action was necessary to preserve the herd.
This is the first time in about 15 years that state wildlife biologists have actively participated in a wolf control program.
In the past five years, the state has relied on private pilots and gunners to kill wolves in different parts of the state where moose or caribou populations are too low to meet the needs and demands of subsistence and sport hunters. More than 800 wolves have been killed in the past five years as a result of the program.
Permitted pilot/gunner teams shoot wolves from the air or land and shoot them, practices that have twice been outlawed twice by Alaska voters in state ballot initiatives but were revived by the Alaska Legislature five years ago when it gave the Alaska Board of Game authority to approve citizen-based predator control.
But that program could be halted if a ballot initiative that would allow only ADF&G personnel to shoot wolves or grizzly bears from the air in the event of a “biological emergency” is passed in August. The initiative is on the Aug. 26 primary ballot.
The situation with the South Alaska Peninsula herd may very well have fallen into the biological emergency category, said Joel Bennett of Juneau, one of the initiative sponsors.
“It sure sounds like it would be a candidate for what we had in mind,” Bennett said. “The two key elements from our perspective is that the commissioner make the determination that it’s a biological emergency, not the Board of Game, and that it is based on adequate data, which in this case they would argue they have.”
While there is no definition for exactly what a “biological emergency” is, Bennett said it is basically a situation where a population will suffer an irreversible decline if something isn’t done.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
OK, if you would have told me you were a troll at the start I could have saved my typing on you. You are taking my words out of context and then implying something I am in no way saying.
Contrary to what you think you've read, it basically proves the existance of God, as the truth about the Big Bang is that EVERYTHING came into existance at once in a primordial flash of energy and light. What created that flash of energy can only be called God.
Let there be Light...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Are you that big of an ass not to understand what I'm saying to you?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Alaska Judge Upholds Aerial Wolf Killing But Limits Extent
ANCHORAGE, Alaska, March 18, 2008 (ENS) - A federal judge on Friday invalidated the aerial gunning of wolves in several areas of Alaska in a case brought by four conservation groups challenging the state's wolf control program.
At the same time, Superior Court Judge William Morse upheld the practice of shooting wolves from planes and helicopters.
The program was challenged by Friends of Animals, Defenders of Wildlife, the Alaska Wildlife Alliance, and the Sierra Club, who sued the Alaska Department of Fish and Game and the Board of Game in 2006 after the Board extended the areas where aerial gunning was allowed.
In his decision, Judge Morse examined the entire history of Alaska's wolf control programs. His ruling upholds the aerial gunning program as a whole, while banning the practice in four areas covering up to 15,000 of the total of about 60,000 square miles covered by the program.
The areas where the judge banned aerial gunning are the areas into which the Game Board extended it in 2006, notably covering the entire Forty Mile caribou herd near Tok and also in an area across Cook Inlet from Anchorage.
The Alaska Department of Fish and Game estimates there are now between 7,700 and 11,200 wolves in the state. State wildlife managers say they prey too heavily on caribou and moose and that the aerial shooting program will increase the populations of these animals needed by subsistance hunters.
Hunter retrieves the body of a wolf shot from a plane. (Photo courtesy Wolf)
But the conservation groups maintain that the science on which the Game Board bases its decisions is not sufficient to justify killing more than 700 wolves since the program began in 2003.
From her office in Darien, Connecticut, Priscilla Feral, president of Friends of Animals, said, "Our efforts in the lawsuit stopped aerial wolf control in 12,000 - 15,000 square miles of Alaska - that's four regions into which the state had expanded their reckless killing schemes in 2006. They've opened 60,000 square miles to aircraft and helicopter-assisted shooting as the bureaucracy is hell bent on killing wolves all across the state."
"These ghastly forays must be halted by public publicy, a majority of voters on a ballot initiative in August, and through other reforms and legal challenges," said Feral. "Alaska's mean-spirited predator control programs are a blight on the continent. Friends of Animals is commited to holding the Board of Game's feet to the fire; their process is a sham."
In his ruling, Judge Morse acknowledged the heated political climate surrounding the issue. "The Court cannot ignore the political war that has been raging for a decade between those who favor wolf control programs and those who oppose them," he wrote.
"The public has passed two initiatives to stop certain wolf control programs; the legislature has twice reauthorized the Board to implement the programs. But the Board's recent actions have to be evaluated on a narrow stage," Judge Morse wrote, concluding that the Board did not violate the law when it adopted the aerial gunning program at issue in the case.
Alaska wolves number between 7,700 and 11,200. (Photo by John Hyde courtesy ADFG)
Alaska voters will again have an opportunity to weigh in on aerial wolf control when they go to the polls in August.
Commenting on the ruling, Rodger Schlickeisen, president of Defenders of Wildlife, said, "This reinforces the need for the ballot initiative on this issue in August. Defenders will continue to work with Alaskans for Wildlife and others to ensure the people's right to vote and once again restrict the aerial hunting of wolves."
But meanwhile, the Board of Game intends to reinstate the areas excluded by the judge. Board of Game chairman Cliff Judkins told the Associated Press "the problems can be corrected through emergency regulation," which could happen as early as this week.
In Washington, House Democrats introduced legislation last September that would protect wolves, bears, and other wildlife from airborne hunting.
The Protect America's Wildlife Act, or PAW Act, was introduced by California Congressman George Miller along with Congressman John Dingell of Michigan, the floor manager of the debate on the original Airborne Hunting Act; and Congressman Norm Dicks of Washington state, chair of the Interior Appropriations Subcommittee.
Now before the Committee on Natural Resources, the bill, H.R. 3663, would close a loophole in federal law that Alaska officials have used to permit hunters to shoot wolves from aircraft.
"It's time to ground Alaska's illegal and inhumane air assault on wolves," said Miller. "The state of Alaska has been operating an airborne hunting program that not only ignores federal law but violates Alaskans' and other Americans' wishes. The PAW Act will help to protect our nation's wildlife from the unethical and unfair practice of airborne hunting."
The PAW Act provides that states can only conduct activities prohibited by the Airborne Hunting Act to respond to legitimate biological and other emergencies, not just to authorize otherwise-illegal hunting practices.
The bill does not alter existing exceptions for the use of aircraft for animal control where land, livestock, water, pets, crops, or human health and safety are at risk.
Copyright Environment News Service (ENS) 2008. All rights reserved.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
The sensationalism and smears in this story would make ABRAHAM FOXMAN proud.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Whatever dude. You are pro death, I am not. Good luck to you on your quest for blood.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
i support this completly its not my idea of hunting and i would never do it but if someone wantsto do it more power to them its not my place or the governmants to say they cant
the american government is a disease masquerading as its own cure
Your words to RickyJ - "LOL I could have told you that would happen"
This is why I don't trust you as far as I can spit, as you have a habit of siding with anyone who disparages me here, no matter what the topic might be, and no matter how ludicrous the other poster's comment might be.
In fact, I don't think you have EVER sided with me, except in perhaps a rare case here or there in that opposition to what I said would not bring you any support.
In other words, I STILL think you are nothing but a shill.
Show me how I'm wrong. Demonstrate where I have taken words out of context here, and how you aren't just siding with Ricky in an attempt to make me look bad, where I've done nothing here that you are accusing me of.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
more power to them its not my place or the governmants to say they cant
Is this what you approve of?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
In fact farmfriend, I find your posting style to be oddly familiar. We were just talking about Marguerite earlier today, and now that I think of it, you appear to have the same sort of posting style, albeit you would obviously need to toss a huge amount of camouflage over yourself in order to be seen as a "good guy" here...
Your inquiries into people's actual identities has always left me a bit leary of you.
I find it a bit odd that you hinted that you knew who Byteshredder was earlier this evening, then turned around and said you didn't know who he was, and that you don't poke around finding out other people's identities, where I know that's a huge lie.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
This is why I don't trust you as far as I can spit, as you have a habit of siding with anyone who disparages me here, no matter what the topic might be, and no matter how ludicrous the other poster's comment might be.
If I had a dollar for everytime you have taken what I said and twisted it into something it was not, I wouldn't be hurting for money right now. And if you go back and read my post you will see that is the only part I quoted or agreed with.
In fact, I don't think you have EVER sided with me, except in perhaps a rare case here or there in that opposition to what I said would not bring you any support.
I used to think you were a friend so I must have sided with you at some point. Now I pretty much ignore you actually. Rarely do I ever post to you and today I was quite civil to you. We used to agree quite often before you started calling me a shill and suggesting I was untrustworthy, twisting what I say and accusing me of all kinds of crap like posting under another name etc. As for your suggestion that I oppose you just to oppose you, you are just not that important.
I really could't care less if you trust me or not. Couldn't care less if you think I'm a shill. As for people supporting me, I don't base my opinions on whether they will be popular or not and I have been known to rush to the defense of those I completely disagree with simply because I consider them a friend. I regret having ever called you a friend. I felt stabbed in the back when you turned on me without warning. So when you start saying I'm untrustworthy or a shill, I just assume you are projecting.
and that you don't poke around finding out other people's identities,
I never said that. God you are an ass. See this post of yours is a prime axample of why I agreed with Ricky on that one post you twist everything. As for trying to find out peoples identies, that is really twisting my attempts to connect with people into something nepharious. I was just trying to make friends with people. I always have. I've gone and visited fellow posters many times. Even had a wonderful dinner with B4Ranch/Sparker. See that's why your crap about me won't fly. I've talked with too many people outside the forum, met and worked with too many on projects. You can doubt me and my motives all you want but it will never make it reality.
I had been civil with you until you decided to poke at me here without having the courtesy of pinging me. That is not being civil in my book, and indicates you have no intent of having a civil discussion, you just found a convenient opportunity to make me look bad and you took it, hoping that I had gone to sleep and wouldn't see it apparently...
So my opinion of you is what it is.
In fact, I did see you as a friend when you first came here, and even stood up for you in regards to what was going on over at LP between you and Byteshredder.
It wasn't until you started hounding me in email in regards to your views on Thimerosal and your siding with JC Harris that I began to wonder about you. That was followed by your incessant bitching about another poster here where you disagreed with her stance on global warming, dragged me into that debate, where you then took the side of big oil and used known industry shills as your "sources", then tried to make ME look as if I was guilty of what you were in fact doing...
I really don't care WHO the hell you are, but if you give me crap here, I'll return it spades. Just remember that...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Me? I don't give a shit who someone is or what their position is.
It's easy to jump to conclusions with what's happened in the past.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
OK, if you would have told me you were a troll at the start I could have saved my typing on you. You are taking my words out of context and then implying something I am in no way saying.
God is always good!
RickyJ posted on 2009-02-04 2:06:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#242. To: RickyJ (#235)
You are taking my words out of context and then implying something I am in no way saying.
Macro evolution does not need a God to occur. So why believe in a God when there would be no reason to do so?
Wrong. The very fact that DNA is a blueprint for life indicates that an intelligence beyond our understanding created not only the DNA, but the concept of DNA and the mechanisms for it to behave as it does.
That's nothing compared to the nature of matter, energy, time, and space. For it all to behave as it does, and for life to exist, there has to something beyond dumb luck.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
OK, if you would have told me you were a troll at the start I could have saved my typing on you. You are taking my words out of context and then implying something I am in no way saying.
Oh let me guess, you're pissed that I didn't include your entire statement and only focused on the part that I was responding to. I'm sure it's clear to everyone here but you and farmfriend that I was responding to your comments concerning macro evolution and the need for God to be involved with that.
It's also clear as day that you are a hardline Bible thumper, so I doubt anyone could mistake you for an "atheist" if that's what your concern is...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Yes, there are scientific methods to date objects, artifacts, stars, galaxies.
But you don't understand them. You just accept them because some guy in a white jacket with a lable of "scientist" said so. That makes you a willing ignorant follower.
What part of unverifiable don't you understand. It is not science if it cannot be verified. Sheesh you think yourself smart but you are making a fool of yourself.
Life penalty. As far as the death penalty for moms, is that what you support?
Yes I am consistent. Death penalty for murdereres. No murderers get off because they happen to kill their kid. I guess child abuse should be ok too, as long as it is your own kid
Sheesh you think yourself smart but you are making a fool of yourself.
I bet you think people are laughing with you, but they're not. They're laughing at you Old Friend.
Post some scientific evidence that states scientists know less than you, ok?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
No murderers get off because they happen to kill their kid. I guess child abuse should be ok too, as long as it is your own kid
You lunatic, I didn't say they should get off, I said they shouldn't be given the death penalty. Life in prison for a person that killed their kid might give them time to think about what they did wrong...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
In fact farmfriend, I find your posting style to be oddly familiar. We were just talking about Marguerite earlier today, and now that I think of it, you appear to have the same sort of posting style, albeit you would obviously need to toss a huge amount of camouflage over yourself in order to be seen as a "good guy" here...
Your inquiries into people's actual identities has always left me a bit leary of you.
I find it a bit odd that you hinted that you knew who Byteshredder was earlier this evening, then turned around and said you didn't know who he was, and that you don't poke around finding out other people's identities, where I know that's a huge lie.
You need to request for your attending physician to up the dosage.
Series
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I used to think you were a friend so I must have sided with you at some point. Now I pretty much ignore you actually. Rarely do I ever post to you and today I was quite civil to you. We used to agree quite often before you started calling me a shill and suggesting I was untrustworthy, twisting what I say and accusing me of all kinds of crap like posting under another name etc. As for your suggestion that I oppose you just to oppose you, you are just not that important.
I really could't care less if you trust me or not. Couldn't care less if you think I'm a shill. As for people supporting me, I don't base my opinions on whether they will be popular or not and I have been known to rush to the defense of those I completely disagree with simply because I consider them a friend. I regret having ever called you a friend. I felt stabbed in the back when you turned on me without warning. So when you start saying I'm untrustworthy or a shill, I just assume you are projecting.
FL has earned the second spot on my bozo filter (The obnoxious atheist drone 'nobody' has #1 permanently locked up). The sheer volume of garbage put forth is justification enough; these goofy attacks are further justification.
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
That's the problem here.. this is being done mostly by Out of Stater's, that spend big money, to have the joy of a kill. Most don't even eat the meat nor keep their kill. The last report I got on this issue, was most of the kills, end up dog food..
Oh really?.. A Local Garage Owner, has 5 kills so far.. NONE brought back with him.. the fckin asshat..
But you don't understand them. You just accept them because some guy in a white jacket with a lable of "scientist" said so. That makes you a willing ignorant follower.
What part of unverifiable don't you understand. It is not science if it cannot be verified. Sheesh you think yourself smart but you are making a fool of yourself.
No, dear, it is you who doesn't understand. Let me help you with some basic definitions for science:
1. originally, knowledge. 2. systemized knowledge derived from observation, study and experimentation. 3. a branch of knowledge, especially one concerned with ESTABLISHING AND SYSTEMIZING facts, principles, and methods 4. The systemized knowledge of nature
SCIENTIFIC: 1. of or dealing with science. 2. Used in or for natural science. 3. based on, or using, the principles and methods of science; systematic and exact. 4. done according to methods gained by training and experience. 5. skill, method, system.
Note that "unverifiable" is nowhere included in basic definitions. To begin with a hypothesis and then create a theory one must begin with what is NOT verified and then provide the body of evidence. For instance, Newton's theory of gravity was not initially VERIFIABLE but later attained this status and, hence, became a LAW. Science is an ever growing BODY OF KNOWLEDGE much of which is not proven VERIFIABLE.......at least not yet.
You do not understand science at even the most elementary level. However, you do claim to be some sort of expert on the Bible. Did you miss this passage? Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Mathew, v, 22. Or this one? A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself. Proverbs, xvii, 12.
Perhaps you could cure your seemingly irrational hysteria concerning this matter by spearheading a project to repopulate wolves in your area. They roamed most of north America only a few hundred years ago.
I would in a heartbeat, as I would trust a wolf before most humans anymore..
I hunt and kill coyotes: canis lupis vs. canis latrans, one's bigger and one's smaller. There's a reason the wolves were exterminated from the lower 48 states: they're KILLERS of livestock and people.
Would you care to show us some stats to back up this claim.. As most attacks that are claimed against wolfs, have been done by either Bears or Coyotes. I know of only two on records so far, one here in the States and one that is still in dispute in Canada.
Would you care to show us some stats to back up this claim.
No.
It's common knowledge that wolves had to go as white men pushed Western Civilization west across America, their presence was completely incompatible with people and livestock.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
In the past five years, the state has relied on private pilots and gunners to kill wolves in different parts of the state where moose or caribou populations are too low to meet the needs and demands of subsistence and sport hunters. More than 800 wolves have been killed in the past five years as a result of the program.
I said macro evolution does not need a God to occur. And I am correct. But macro evolution is only a fairy tale that has no evidence to support it whatsoever. If macro evolution were proven true then God would be a liar saying he created all things in six days. If God is a liar, then what difference does it make if he exists or not?
I said my faith in God is not irrational, and it isn't. If believing in God required me to be irrational to do so then I couldn't do it. But your faith in macro evolution and man made global warming is irrational.
After reading more of your posts on this thread, I know it is of no value to debate this with you.. you kill for the trill. To which I am wholeheartedly against. In my step-father's family, many were Game Wardens, and all were against the killing of any animal, that was NOT used for meat/skin.
That's the problem here.. this is being done mostly by Out of Stater's, that spend big money, to have the joy of a kill. Most don't even eat the meat nor keep their kill. The last report I got on this issue, was most of the kills, end up dog food..
Oh really?.. A Local Garage Owner, has 5 kills so far.. NONE brought back with him.. the fckin asshat..
If you are responding to the quote in italics above, you should send your comments to the person who posted that quote.
There are lots of people who ignore the hunting regulations. You must salvage the hide and have it sealed within 30 days of the kill in most game management units.
You and FormerLurker need to get over yourselves and your feigned sense of outrage over the FUCKING WOLVES. Remember, $12.40 buys a non-resident wolf license in Alberta, Canada; they aren't ate up with the "Save the WOLF!!" bullshit.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
You are an anti-hunter who keeps trying to cloak himself in "my family this..." and "responsible hunting only if..." bullshit. Fuck you and fuck FormerLurker, I know what kind of cock-sucking bastards you two really are, you want to ban ALL hunting and you start with the wolves/polar bears/etc. in increments. FUCK YOU!!
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
There are lots of people who ignore the hunting regulations. You must salvage the hide and have it sealed within 30 days of the kill in most game management units.
The hunting regulations are for the benefit of whom exactly?
Do you really think there are so many hunters that they could if they wanted to make wolves extinct? Are wolves in any way whatsoever in any danger of going extinct? If not then the regulations are just a way for the state to get more money out of people through fines. Do you like the idea of someone telling you that you cannot do something on your own property that is hurting no one else? And how are the enforcement of these regulations suppose to occur? Cameras set everywhere to watch your every move, or are they just going to rely on people turning their neighbors in?
In the past five years, the state has relied on private pilots and gunners to kill wolves in different parts of the state where moose or caribou populations are too low to meet the needs and demands of subsistence and sport hunters. More than 800 wolves have been killed in the past five years as a result of the program.
I stand 110% against such hunting..
You stand against mercy killings of animals so they won't starve to death. Well, I stand 100% against such cruel behavior to animals. No animal should have to starve to death when a bullet can end their suffering instantly. Animals are not people and do not have the same protection as humans do to life. We are commanded by God to kill and eat animals. They are for us, not us for them.
The hunting regulations are for the benefit of whom exactly?
The wildlife of Alaska and the people of Alaska who depend on a robust wildlife population.
Do you really think there are so many hunters that they could if they wanted to make wolves extinct?
NO.
Are wolves in any way whatsoever in any danger of going extinct?
No.
If not then the regulations are just a way for the state to get more money out of people through fines. Do you like the idea of someone telling you that you cannot do something on your own property that is hurting no one else?
I do not hunt wolves on my own property.
And how are the enforcement of these regulations suppose to occur?
In the usual manner. People are reported breaking the law, people are confronted by enforcers for breaking the law.
Cameras set everywhere to watch your every move, or are they just going to rely on people turning their neighbors in?
Haven't run into a single camera out in the bush and my neighbors have never accused anyone falsely.
There is nothing scientific about the theory of Evolution. Its all made up. Someone imagined it. On the other hand if the Bible is true you would expect to find some archelogical evidence pertaining to certain events found in the Bible. Take the flood for example. If that is true as the Bible says it is. Then you would expect to see some evidence of that event since it was supposed to be global. You would expect to find billions of dead things buried in mud laid down by water all over the earth. That is what you find in the fossil record.
The fossil record supports the creation model. In the fossil record there are no intermediary species as would be required for evolution to be true. As far as their dating method. It is flawed circular reasoning, but you know that. The Bible is true the flood happened. Real scientists usually know this.
I'm not even going to post the article...one of hundreds I found castigating the people who are slaughtering for the love of the kill. People can do the research on their own.
Yeah I'm an old John Denver lover and animal/tree hugger from way back. The case and reasons against this slaughter have been made quite well by scientists, native american activists and many others, so I won't get involved in the debate or unwarranted personal attacks. I will, however, weigh in with my opinion. This goes against every fiber of my moral beliefs (not desert religions..they all love the excuse to needlessly kill whenever they get the chance.)
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
The Bible is true the flood happened. Real scientists usually know this.
We've come a long way baby !
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
FL has earned the second spot on my bozo filter (The obnoxious atheist drone 'nobody' has #1 permanently locked up). The sheer volume of garbage put forth is justification enough; these goofy attacks are further justification.
Oh boo fucking hoo, you don't like to hear the truth so you block your ears.
You're a typical example of what is wrong with people today, and the sort of person responsible for the mess this country is in. Hear no evil, see no evil, but you certainly have no problem SPEAKING evil on the other hand...
I didn't like you when I first saw you here, but thought you were a better person than I had originally thought so I decided to consider you an ally over time.
My first impression was spot on.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Thanks for the post Indie. I appreciate your views on this.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
No use trying to speak logically to Old Friend, if his TV evangelist (Hagee perhaps?) didn't tell him, then it must be a lie...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I said macro evolution does not need a God to occur. And I am correct.
No you are not. God could very well work through any process God chooses, and just because YOU think he can't doesn't make it so.
If macro evolution were proven true then God would be a liar saying he created all things in six days.
God didn't say that, MEN did. That you think God sat down and wrote a book illustrates how childish you are.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
But you don't understand them. You just accept them because some guy in a white jacket with a lable of "scientist" said so. That makes you a willing ignorant follower.
What part of unverifiable don't you understand. It is not science if it cannot be verified. Sheesh you think yourself smart but you are making a fool of yourself.
You and FormerLurker need to get over yourselves and your feigned sense of outrage over the FUCKING WOLVES.
YOU need to get over your belief that YOU have the right to kill anything that moves, just because it gives you a cheap fucking thrill.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Do you really think there are so many hunters that they could if they wanted to make wolves extinct?
They can easily go extinct. How many wild Buffalo are left in the US these days???
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Wrong Ricky. You are feeling JUSTIFIED in killing animals by MEN who TRANSLATED ancient writings into what they FELT like writing, to give them JUSTIFICATION for what they had already decided they were going to do...
In Hebrew, the English phrase "dominion over animals" means "guardianship, or stewardship" over them, and does not give a green light to exploitation and slaughter.
You are the product of TV evangelism, and a very fine example of such.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
So since the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh mentions the same flood, then the Sumerian writings must all be true as well, right?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
While Kempthorne heads the Dept. of Interior, the U.S. Dept. of Agriculture’s (USDA) National Research Center has current reports that wolves have restored much balance in the wild, keeping coyote populations down. Another 3-year study radio collared wolves in packs whose habitats surrounded the perimeter of cattle ranches. The wolves constantly crossed through cattle herds at night. In 3 years, wolves killed only 8 cattle. The National Geographic Channel aired a segment about Yellowstone’s wolves being a great success for the environment there. Why the rush to kill wolves after allowing them to flourish, especially if they are maintaining a balance among other predators?
Well didn't you just say that since the Bible mentions the flood, it HAS to ALL be true?
I'm just using your own logic here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by using YOUR logic, since the Epic of Gilgamesh mentions the flood, it ALSO HAS to ALL be true.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Why the rush to kill wolves after allowing them to flourish, especially if they are maintaining a balance among other predators?
Because it gives the "sportsmen" a hard-on, and scores some points with them for Sarah Palin...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Well didn't you just say that since the Bible mentions the flood, it HAS to ALL be true?
I'm just using your own logic here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but by using YOUR logic, since the Epic of Gilgamesh mentions the flood, it ALSO HAS to ALL be true.
There is nothing logical about you. The Bible is Gods word. History books are not. I would type it slower for you but you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
Says who? I'll tell you who, it is MEN that say that, not GOD.
There is nothing logical about you.
You are so dense it's pathetic, where you can't even respond to your OWN logic in a sensible way, you decide to attack me personally instead.
You are a nutjob bud.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Whatever mumbo jumbo you're using for an excuse, I'd love to know if you could hold a gun in your hand and blow away these wild beautiful sentient creatures needlessly yourself without feeling guilt? And how does your religious stuff even fit on this thread? What galaxy are you in? Why are you discussing the flood? What's the frequency Kenneth?
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
Hey, this is God Can I please have your attention There's a need for intervention Man, I'm disappointed in what I'm seeing Yeah, this is God You fight each other in my name Treat life like it's a foolish game I'd say you've got the wrong idea
Oh, all I'm asking for is love Well I've seen you hurt yourselves enough Oh, I've been waiting on a change in you
Yeah, this is God I've given everything to you But look at what you do to the world that I created This is God What's with this attitude and hate You grow more ignorant with age You had it made, now look at all you've wasted
Oh, all I'm asking for is love Oh, I've seen you hurt yourselves enough Oh, I've been waiting on a change in you, yeah
I know your every thought, your heart and soul and every move There are so many consequences to the things you do
All I'm asking for is love Haven't you hurt yourselves enough Oh, I've been waiting on a change in you A change in you, oh
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
Whatever mumbo jumbo you're using for an excuse, I'd love to know if you could hold a gun in your hand and blow away these wild beautiful sentient creatures needlessly yourself without feeling guilt?
Those beautiful creatures would tear you up given the chance and devour you on the spot. I would have no problem killing them for survival and/or for food.
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
>>I said macro evolution does not need a God to occur. And I am correct.
No you are not. God could very well work through any process God chooses, and just because YOU think he can't doesn't make it so.
Yes I am correct.
Macro evolution depends on random chance for life to begin and evolve. If it is random chance alone, then God is not needed for it to occur. If you don't believe me then ask any scientist and they will tell you what I am saying here is correct.
If macro evolution were proven true then God would be a liar saying he created all things in six days.
God didn't say that, MEN did. That you think God sat down and wrote a book illustrates how childish you are.
It's called the inspired word of God. You can choose to believe men made it up, but I don't believe that at all. For me it is the inspired word of God written down by men. God is more than capable of preserving his inspired word should anyone try to change it.
God made all things we can know about in six 24 hour days. He could have done it in a nano-second if he wanted to, but he chose to do it in six 24 hour days.
You hold no moral high ground here, you're an anti-hunter. I get my "cheap fucking thrills" exposing you for the fraud you are. Go back to El-Pee, Fred Mertz.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
I can't, I'm not enough of a wild eyed bloodlustful fanatic wishing to kill a bunch of "Mooselem" children, and was banned for daring to speak out against those who were ecstatic over the deaths of innocent people.
I'm sure you fit in quite nicely there though, so I'm sure you are a member in good standing at ElZionPost.org...
And BTW slick, I'm not Fred. I am also not an anti-hunter, I am against shooting creatures from airplanes and killing animals for sport.
I have no quarrel with those who depend on what they hunt for food, just with those who do it for fun.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Nobody is killing wolves for sport from an airplane, you and the Defenders of Wildlife are a bunch of goddamn, motherfucking, lying sons-of-bitches. Eat shit and die you jackass.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Macro evolution depends on random chance for life to begin and evolve.
I don't think you understand what so-called "macro evolution" means. It implies a large scale change across species rather than a small change within species. In fact, the term isn't widely used anymore, where most scientists see evolution as one whole biological process.
So what I am saying is that those changes that caused evolution to take place could VERY WELL be the act of a Creator, not the random chance that you think the term demands.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Nobody is killing wolves for sport from an airplane
No, they are doing it for political show as to excite all the "sportsmen" who ejaculate over a "good" kill while dreaming of Sarah Palin holding their dicks.
you and the Defenders of Wildlife are a bunch of goddamn, motherfucking, lying sons-of-bitches. Eat shit and die you jackass
Hmmm, did I hit a nerve or something?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
So claim the people who not only wrote it, but who decided what books would go into it.
God is more than capable of preserving his inspired word should anyone try to change it.
You believe Adam was an individual man. "A-dam" means HUMAN in Hebrew, where the word MAN is "eesh". So your English translation is corrupt and means something totally different than what the original text says, thus it was NOT written by God since the meaning was not preserved, according to your logic.
God made all things we can know about in six 24 hour days.
You neglect the fact that you have no idea what length a day is in terms of God's time, even IF the actual translation of what you think it says is grammatically correct.
I do know that there is some truth in Genesis, just not the truth that you think.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
If you want to LIE to the other 4um members, that's your business, but I'll continue to expose you and your anti-hunting agenda.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
So what I am saying is that those changes that caused evolution to take place could VERY WELL be the act of a Creator, not the random chance that you think the term demands.
Hey Jackass. Quit trying to undermine the foundations of the Bible.
Evolution is not compatible with Gods word. Yes jackass it is GODS word.
Evolution implies death and suffering and new species coming out of that. The Bible teaches there was no death before sin. So therefore evolution isn't compatible with Gods word. The Earth and all that was in in was created in 6 days. You would have Adam and Eve sitting on a pile of dead bones and listening to God say that there is no death unless they eat from the tree.
So if you want to have your own little cult religion where you cut and paste from the Bible to your whim of the day and mix and smear it with the godless religion of evilution. Then that is fine do that. But don't try to tell anyone anything about the Bible. Becuase you don't get it.
So how am I lying? My opinion that this assault by air is morally bankrupt and is totally unnecessary. The facts are, it IS taking place, although you are apparently trying to say it isn't, which makes YOU the liar.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Hey Jackass. Quit trying to undermine the foundations of the Bible
You don't even understand the first thing about what the true Hebrew text of the Bible says, whether it be right or wrong, so screw off.
Evolution is not compatible with Gods word.
So says Old Friend, who apparently never understood anything beyond 1st grade science.
Evolution implies death and suffering and new species coming out of that.
You are such an idiot it's sort of sad in a way. Evolution is about genetic changes taking place over time causing a new species to develop from an existing species, or for a broad spectrum event to change MANY species at once.
That you can't let go of the mistranslated words of men trying to relate a story that people might grasp thousands of years ago as THE DE FACTO story of the Universe is your problem, not mine.
So if you want to have your own little cult religion where you cut and paste from the Bible
That you refuse to consider what you THINK is true might NOT be true, and refuse to look at the powerful evidence of Jesus being an Essene (Nazarene), where his teachings were drastically different than what YOU think they are, well, that is ALSO your problem...
You have been given the choice and the opportunity, you have made your decision. Good luck with that.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Fucking liar. I posted the links to the Alaska Fish & Game regulations and you wouldn't look for yourself. You don't have the moral high ground here, you are not the arbiter of what is and is not true. The truth is you want to see the eradication of tens of thousands of caribou and moose by the wolves, you only bring emotional rhetoric to the table:
Facing a "serious conservation concern," members of the Alaska Board of Game voted to adopt a predator management program to help a severely declining caribou herd in Game Management Unit 9D (Figure 1). The Southern Alaska Peninsula (SAP) herd presently numbers 600 caribou, down from a historical high of 10,000 caribou in 1983.
"It would be irresponsible in this case for us not to take action to help this herd," says ADF&G Division of Wildlife Conservation Director Doug Larsen.
The SAP declined dramatically over the last five years (Figure 2), in spite of good nutrition and minimal hunting harvest. The problem has been calves are not living as long as they should. Adequate numbers of calves have been born each year, but survival has been poor. During the past two years, nearly all of the calves been killed.
The management program approved by the Board will focus on removing wolves near the SAP calving grounds. Department staff plan to use a helicopter to locate and kill about 25 wolves from two to four wolf packs in the area. Goals of the program are to allow calves to survive to adulthood and to stop the overall herd decline. Brown bears, though abundant, do not kill as many calves as do wolves on the Alaska Peninsula.
"This type of focused predator reduction is very similar to programs conducted elsewhere by state and federal agencies addressing conservation concerns," Larsen said.
Although the herd ranges extensively on federal lands contained in the Izembek National Wildlife Refuge, they tend to calve on state lands, where predator control can be conducted.
Surveys confirmed nearly all calves died early in life and at a much higher rate than observed in other Alaska herds (Figure 3). Field studies on the Alaska Peninsula have shown that just about all calf deaths at this stage of life are caused by large predators (Figure 4).
The future of the SAP depends on whether or not calves survive during the next few years, and with high fuel prices and a lack of alternative food sources, the welfare of many local communities depend of the future of this herd.
Caribou herds have disappeared before, but because the SAP herd has been identified by the Board as important for human consumption, the Department is mandated by Alaska's "intensive management" law to take steps to rescue the herd.
The herd's decline was initially suspected when caribou surveys conducted in 2003-2005 indicated a drop in the number of calves reaching adulthood. Winter population counts in 2004-2005 also indicated a population decline, but not dramatically different than patterns seen in the late 1980s, when a decline was followed by herd growth.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Wolves and bears are very effective and efficient predators on caribou, moose, deer and other wildlife. In most of Alaska, humans also rely on the same species for food. In Alaska's Interior, predators kill more than 80 percent of the moose and caribou that die during an average year, while humans kill less than 10 percent. In most of the state, predation holds prey populations at levels far below what could be supported by the habitat in the area. Predation is an important part of the ecosystem, and all ADF&G wolf management programs, including control programs, are designed to sustain wolf populations in the future.
The Alaska Board of Game approves wildlife regulations through a public participation process. When the Board determines that people need more moose and/or caribou in a particular area, and restrictions on hunting aren't enough to allow prey populations to increase, predator control programs may be needed. Wolf hunting and trapping rarely reduces wolf numbers enough to increase prey numbers or harvests.
Currently, five wolf control programs are underway that comprises about 9.4% of Alaska's land area. The programs use a closely controlled permit system allowing aerial or same day airborne methods to remove wolves in designated areas. In these areas, wolf numbers will be temporarily reduced, but wolves will not be permanently eliminated from any area. Successful programs allow humans to take more moose, and healthy populations of wolves to continue to thrive in Alaska.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
LOL, you are pathetic. I guess to you, Einstein was a total idiot since he didn't use a Bible to formulate his Theory of Relativity.
You have no concept of anything that requires intelligence or insight beyond the mind of a small child. I feel like I'm tossing pearls before swine.
Good day.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You neglect the fact that you have no idea what length a day is in terms of God's time, even IF the actual translation of what you think it says is grammatically correct.
God did it six 24 hour days. They were the length of our present days or man could not have lived on Earth then. You can't reasoned with and choose to believe what you want to believe so it does no good trying to reason with you. Maybe someday you will realize you are wrong, then again maybe you won't, but either way you are wrong about macro evolution and man-made global warming.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Fucking liar. I posted the links to the Alaska Fish & Game regulations and you wouldn't look for yourself.
Hey dick breath, I know they are making excuses for themselves, it doesn't mean those excuses are valid or beyond reproach.
Their science has been called into question more than once by other groups of scientists, and as far as I can tell they have made faulty assumptions and misleading statements.
You took issue with the fact that I reported the aerial targetting of wolves, at first apparently saying that it was NOT going on. Perhaps I misunderstood you, but that is the impression I get.
Regardless, it's QUITE apparent you are a firm supporter of killing animals for sport. Fuck you.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
He is here not to learn, but rather push an agenda. Or he is as dense as you said. :=)
So Ricky, have you burned any crosses on your neighbor's lawns lately?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Actually, I hunt coyotes for very specific reasons: the USFS technicians tell me to tear them up, there's too many in the areas I hunt and they commit predation on deer fawn and turkey poults. I alluded to that in post #161. But I knew I could draw you out into the open when I just let on that it was all about drawing blood. You're not to bright, boy.
Game. Set. Match. Motherfucker.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
I've wasted enough time here myself trying to get retards such as yourself to understand anything beyond Sesame Street. So ok, you side with those who wish to kill animals for pure enjoyment, and side against those who wish to speak out against the cruelty of such practices.
You care not about the suffering of other creatures, in fact, you condone it.
You are a self-righteous hypocrite, a jackass, and a fool.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
But I knew I could draw you out into the open when I just let on that it was all about drawing blood. You're not to bright, boy.
As much as you think you might have "won" something here, it's apparent that YOU are not too bright as you've presented yourself to be a bloodthirsty asshole who gets his kicks killing God's creatures, not for food, but for sheer enjoyment.
You are not as slick as you think you are, you little twit.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You never answered why Jesus sinned when he ate fish.
He didn't, so he didn't sin.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
They were the length of our present days or man could not have lived on Earth then.
Prove it.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Oh and BTW, boy, you apparently don't know how to spell the word "too", unless you MEANT to say "to bright" in trying to say I was not going to a place called bright.
Regardless, you're certainly a dim bulb even in a dimly lit room.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You never answered why Jesus sinned when he ate fish.
He didn't, so he didn't sin.
Jesus ate fish with his disciples and like 5000 people. He also gave fish to people to consume. If eating meat is a sin then why would Jesus give his people something that would be a sin for them to consume?
Jesus ate fish with his disciples and like 5000 people.
Prove it. Give me the Biblical quote if you'd like.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I have only said that God could very well be in control of what changes occur through evolution. That I am not saying that God doesn't exist must piss you off, eh? BTW, are you trying to say that ALL the species and types of creatures that inhabit the Earth today did so since the beginning of time here on Earth?
Prove to me that you know how long a day is in the eyes of God.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
A Real Hunter does not kill for sport, but because he/she uses his kill for food..
Also, you remind me of a "hunter" I know, that makes a high 6 figure income, but lives in a 3 room apartment with his Stuffed Kills.. and once told me, that he knows that where he lives, is in not the best part of town, but loves to scare the fck out of those who live around him..
You stand against mercy killings of animals so they won't starve to death.
No, I don't.. but there is a huge difference between "mercy" killings and Sport Hunting.. My Great Uncle Jim, in his role of Game Warden, had to set up a program to reduce the % of Deer on many PP&L owned lands.. he did it in a proper and moral manner, and to this day.. I am proud of his actions..
You hold no moral high ground here, you're an anti-hunter. I get my "cheap fucking thrills" exposing you for the fraud you are. Go back to El-Pee, Fred Mertz.
Wait a sec here.. you stated, you set out to decieve another member here, with what you were posting and you want to talk about having "moral" ground..
Nobody is killing wolves for sport from an airplane, you and the Defenders of Wildlife are a bunch of goddamn, motherfucking, lying sons-of-bitches. Eat shit and die you jackass.
BULLSHIT! I personally know of someone who has, and posted about this person, back up on this thread..
Nobody is killing wolves for sport from an airplane, - X
The programs use a closely controlled permit system allowing aerial or same day airborne methods to remove wolves in designated areas- X's posted article..
So which is it? Because I see airplane/aerial as one and the same..
Oh and BTW, boy, you apparently don't know how to spell the word "too", unless you MEANT to say "to bright" in trying to say I was not going to a place called bright.
I'll give X-15 benefit of doubt, but this thread did remind me of getting hollered at at work for trying to bright the place up too much.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
you and the Defenders of Wildlife are a bunch of goddamn, motherfucking, lying sons-of-bitches. Eat shit and die you jackass.
This, apparently, came from contribution #311. Thankfully, the intellectual who authored this persuasive argument is on my s_tlist because I don't see #311 but I'm glad to get an occasional glimpse of what I'm missing.
I've been too busy to visit this site for the past 10 days or so but, clearly, the level and the civility of debate here has improved much.
I've been too busy to visit this site for the past 10 days or so but, clearly, the level and the civility of debate here has improved much.
I don't post much at LP because of the same thing.. I love a good debate, but when every other word is of that level, oh well.. all I can say, is that it shows my age.. I'm just getting too old for it..
State wildlife officials believe they have saved more than 1,400 moose or nearly 3,000 caribou -- or some combination thereof -- with a winter program to kill wolves from aircraft, although the wolf kill remains far below what the state wanted.
Pilot-gunner teams have taken 124 wolves to date, according to Bruce Bartley, spokesman for the Alaska Division of Wildlife Conservation. The goal was 455 to 670 wolves.
Still, the kill, which is ongoing, is more than the 97 wolves gunners took last year.
The program runs as long as conditions allow or until state biologists decide wolf-kill quotas have been met. The kill has been low this year because of a March that lacked the fresh snow and good light needed for optimum hunting conditions.
The exact number of moose or caribou saved by thinning wolf populations is hard to determine. Fish and Game's ungulate survival calculations are based on an average consumption of approximately 12 moose or 24 caribou per wolf per year.
A kill of 124 wolves would thus translate to 1,488 moose or 2,976 caribou or some combination thereof.
But if the moose are small -- calves or yearlings -- and easy to kill, the wolves might eat more. If the hunting is difficult, the wolves might be forced to survive on less. And in some cases, wolves can supplement their main diet of moose and caribou with other prey such as Dall sheep or beavers.
Meanwhile, the number of moose and caribou saved for reproductive purposes, wildlife viewing and some hunting could be much smaller if wolves killed in March or April are quickly replaced by cubs in the summer. Wolves have high reproductive rates, leading some biologists to question the effectiveness of the hunts.
Studies conducted on the Kenai Peninsula by noted biologist Rolf Peterson from Michigan Technological University found that even if 40 percent of the wolves in a pack died over a winter, pack sizes could be rebuilt by the start of the next winter.
Peterson found the Kenai wolves killed, on average, one moose every 4.7 days.
The hunting efficiency of wolves in winter is what led state wildlife officials to support aerial wolf hunting -- or wolf control as it is commonly called -- in areas of the state where biologists believe moose and caribou populations have been depressed by predation from bears and wolves, bad winters or in some cases by humans overhunting them.
The ability of wolf populations to quickly rebuild and retain high rates of predation has been one of the arguments opponents of the hunts have used to criticize aerial gunning as inefficient and unnecessary. However, most opposition to the hunts is built around an affection for wolves by proponents.
Long a subject of fear and loathing in North America, wolves were exterminated in most of the Lower 48 in the last century. They hung on only in the far north forests of Minnesota until American attitudes changed, and a program was begun to restore the animals to their traditional range.
Wolves have since spread from Minnesota into nearby Midwestern states, and a reintroduction program initiated in Yellowstone National Park has helped wolves to re-establish old hunting grounds in Wyoming, Montana and Colorado. Meanwhile, the animals have become a wildlife-viewing icon for nature lovers everywhere.
CONTROVERSIAL PRACTICE
Aerial wolf control in Alaska remains highly controversial. Citizen efforts to stop it continue. Alaska voters have twice approved initiatives to stop the hunts, and another is slated to go on the ballot later this year.
In March, Superior Court Judge William F. Morse invalidated the aerial killing of wolves in several small areas of the state while issuing a ruling upholding the predator control program. The suit was filed by Friends of Animals, Defenders of Wildlife and the Alaska Wildlife Alliance.
Ron Clarke, assistant director of the state's Division of Wildlife Conservation, told The Associated Press that Morse's ruling was largely a victory for the program.
"It reaffirms the state's position," he said. "We thought we were doing it appropriately and for the most part we are."
Later in March, the shortfalls identified by Morse were fixed and the programs reactivated, according to Cathie Harms, spokeswoman for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.
But Priscilla Feral, executive director for Friends of Animals, wasn't satisfied.
"The state's mean-spirited and deeply unpopular wolf-shooting forays must stop," she told the Associated Press.
Wolf-control teams in airplanes kill a fraction of the 1,200 to 1,300 wolves taken by trappers in Alaska each year, but the airplane kills remain at the center of a hot debate.
Wolf kill summary: Preliminary Fish and Game numbers
Here is a breakdown, by game management unit, of the 124 wolves killed by same- day airborne hunting and the 157 by more traditional hunting and trapping, according to Fish and Game. Alaska has a total of 26 game management units.
GMU 13
WHERE: Nelchina Basin, a broad area generally bounded by the Glenn Highway on the south, the Denali Highway to the north, the Copper River to the east and the Chickaloon River to the west.
Desired population: 135-165
Fall population estimate: 242-296
Wolf kill, same-day airborne: 33
Wolf kill, hunting and trapping: 53
Total: 86
Post-control population: 156-210
GMU 16
WHERE: Drainage of the Yentna River, a tributary to the Susitna River just north of Anchorage
Desired population: 30-60
Fall population estimate: 106-173
Wolf kill, same day airborne: 20
Wolf kill, hunting and trapping: 23
Total: 43
Post-control population: 63-130
GMU 19A
WHERE: North slope of the Alaska Range in a huge area around the tiny village of Sleetmute
Desired population: 30-36
Fall population estimate: 59-93
Wolf kill, same day airborne: 15
Wolf kill, hunting and trapping: 16
Total: 31
Post-control population: 28-62
GMU 19D
WHERE: North slope of the Alaska Range in a huge area around the town of McGrath
Desired population: 40
Fall population estimate: 86-114
Wolf kill, same day airborne: 29
Wolf kill, hunting and trapping: 23
Total: 52
Post-control population: 34-62
GMU 12 AND 20E
WHERE: Swath of land half the length of the Alaska-Canada border from Wrangell- St. Elias National Park and Preserve in the south to the community of Eagle
Desired population: 88-103
Fall population estimate: 366-398
Wolf kill, same day airborne: 27
Wolf kill, hunting and trapping: 42
Total: 69
Post-control wolf population: 259-311
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
State wildlife officials believe they have saved more than 1,400 moose or nearly 3,000 caribou -- or some combination thereof -- with a winter program to kill wolves from aircraft, although the wolf kill remains far below what the state wanted.
Hmmmmm. 124 wolves or 4,400 moose / caribou.
There is some kind of moral relativism argument in here, I'm sure of it.
BTW a moose bit my sister once ~(#/
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
The Bible is true the flood happened. Real scientists usually know this.
Four stories of the flood PREDATE the Bible. As do many Biblical stories that have been previously recorded in Sumerian texts.
Real scientists actually know that the flood was not a WORLDWIDE event, but rather an event that occured in an ISOLATED area. How did the dinos fit into the ark? How about giraffes that were never indiginous to the area? Maybe God used quantum physics to get 'er done just as Jesus used quantum physics to feed the masses all those fishes.
The theory of evolution is equally scientific as the theory of gravity. The difference is that the theory of gravity is now LAW, while the body of evidence regarding the theory of evolution is still growing. The theory includes a much more expansive body of evidence than fossil records.
Nobody with a lick of sense regarding science denies that theory of evolution is scientific. Of coure, I don't expect a person who denies inductive reasoning in lieu of the term verifiable to understand an iota about science.
In regards to the infallible word of the Bible, refer to Jeremiah, 8, 8: How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? The Bible actually tells you that the scribes have lied and tampered with the message. What about trusting all the prophets? Jeremiah, 23, 26-27: How long shall this be in the heart of the prophesy lies? Yea, they are prophets of deceit of their own heart. Even Jesus told you to beware, Luke 24, 25: Then he (Jesus) said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart, to believe all that the prophets have spoken.
Alaskan Group Asks for Permission to Kill Wolf Pups
ANCHORAGE, Alaska — Residents along the Kuskokwim River want state game managers to allow them to kill wolf pups in their dens.
Wolf numbers seem to be rising in the wilderness around Aniak, McGrath and other villages, and the task once carried out by young Native men should be employed again to help moose populations recover, said Greg Roczicka, natural resources director with Orutsaramuit Native Council in Bethel.
The tribal government and a Fish and Game advisory committee along the central Kuskokwim River have submitted separate proposals asking the Board of Game to overturn regulations outlawing the practice.
The Game Board is scheduled to consider the proposals at upcoming meetings later this month and in February.
At least one group plans to speak against the idea.
"We're fervently opposed to it," said John Toppenberg, director with Alaska Wildlife Alliance. "It's been illegal in Alaska for a long time and deservedly so. It's a Stone Age concept of wildlife management and has no place as a management tool for civilized people. It's just barbaric."
The tribal council and advisory panel also want the board to let hunters kill bear cubs in dens. Along with wolves, bears are blamed for low moose numbers around central Kuskokwim villages, said Doug Carney of Sleetmute, former chairman of Central Kuskokwim Advisory Committee.
Last year's poor aerial wolf-kill and trapping season in Game Unit 19A, located around Aniak, is factoring into concerns that wolf numbers are rebounding, he said. Aerial gunners and trappers killed 10 wolves last winter and spring, compared to more than 70 in each of the two previous years, because a lack of snow made tracking and spotting wolves difficult, he said.
This winter, people are seeing wolves more often than in the past two years, and trappers are finding more wolf tracks, said Carney, a trapper.
Roczicka said pup killing is necessary because the central Kuskokwim region once teemed with moose, consistently providing subsistence meat for hunters from Bethel and villages. Because moose numbers have plummeted in the last five years, subsistence hunting has been eliminated or sharply reduced, he said.
"It was the best moose habitat in the country and it's almost totally gone now," he said. "We want to do everything we can to get moose numbers up back to the way they were."
Reviving the practice will allow predator management to continue if the state's aerial wolf-kill program ends, said Roczikca. Efforts to stop it include a citizen's initiative to appear on the state ballot in August.
Many of the Yup'ik hunters who once controlled wolves in Western Alaska have died, but their stories have passed down, Roczicka said. People who are still alive today often share those stories, including members of Orutsararmuit, Roczicka said.
The group's seven-member council asked Roczicka in the fall to submit the Game Board proposal, he said. The old practice is referenced in a 1997 report by the National Academy of Sciences called "Wolves, Bears and their Prey in Alaska."
According to the report, Athabascans in the Interior controlled wolf numbers to protect caribou and moose by keeping track of wolf dens in hunting areas and systematically killing pups.
Other methods of wolf control that are no longer practiced — and are not requested in the proposal — include wiping an animal's blood on knives or sharp rocks, he said. Wolves cut themselves as they licked away the blood, bleeding to death through their mouths.
Also, some trappers would coil sharpened baleen or willow sticks into taut wads, cover them with fat and freeze the device, he said. Once gobbled by wolves, the wads would open, piercing stomachs and killing the animal, he said.
Game Board chairman Cliff Judkins said the pup-killing proposal is worth discussing.
"It certainly has merit if it's effective and is done by Native and Eskimo people," he said.
"They certainly know where the dens are at and they're not interested in wiping out wolf populations any more than we are."
If the Game Board doesn't pass Orutsararmuit's proposal at its meeting beginning Jan. 25, the central Kuskokwim Advisory committee wants its proposals passed at the Game Board's next meeting beginning Feb. 29.
The proposals only apply to Game Management Unit 19, surrounding Aniak and McGrath.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Personally, I'd like to catch and release them. Into Los Angeles County, Boston, Washington D.C., Albuquerque and NYC - among dozens of other places !!!
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
It could be called "letting the wolves clean up the sick/diseased/old/worthless democrats". That's the exact language the WOLF lobby uses to defend the imbalance in nature without management. The first explorers into the interior of Alaska n the 18th centurey almost starved due to a lack of game due to wolf predation, an inconvenient truth to be sure.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
God made all things we can know about in six 24 hour days. He could have done it in a nano-second if he wanted to, but he chose to do it in six 24 hour days.
When was the last time you actually read your Bible?
A thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday. Psalms, xc, 4.
One day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Peter, iii, 8.
RickyJ, which is correct? Your analysis of six 24 hour days or these Biblical sources, the inspired word of God, that contradict your own assumptions? The Bible is filled with contradictions such as this.
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Hosea 4, 6.
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith, virtue; and to virtue, knowledge.
Hyannis Port, Kennebunkport, City of London...Davos?
..crawford, paraguay. Absofreakintutely !
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
It could be called "letting the wolves clean up the sick/diseased/old/worthless democrats". That's the exact language the WOLF lobby uses to defend the imbalance in nature without management. The first explorers into the interior of Alaska n the 18th centurey almost starved due to a lack of game due to wolf predation, an inconvenient truth to be sure.
Sorry, I was flipping the elk steaks. I totally agree; it's clear to me.
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Please don't mistake your amazing faith as having anything whatsoever to do with science.
Ricky, I have no difficulty distinguishing faith from science. Actually, there is much ado in the world of science to VERIFY the power of faith. The inherent quest of science is not to discount God, but rather to understand his creation.
As one of my favorite scientists, who wanted only to know God's thoughts, stated: "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
And, "The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge." (this is verified in the Bible)
And, last but surely not least, "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." Albert Einstein
This is the perfect case for states rights: why in the heck are people in the Lower 48 trying to dictate how Alaska manages their wildlife?? I've never seen one person from Alaska tell Colorado how to manage their elk herds or try to tell Texas how to manage their deer. Thinning out the wolves may not look pretty to some people, but aerial control is a necessity due to the size of Alaska.
The wolf lobby is real and ultimately it leads to the ban on ALL hunting.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Alaska puts bounty on wolves to boost predator control program
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) - The state is offering incentives for people who kill wolves in an effort to boost Alaska's predator control program, which so far has failed to meet expected numbers.
"Several factors have led to a low wolf take this winter, so we're going to step up our efforts to meet the annual objectives in this important program," Commissioner Denby Lloyd with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game said in a statement Wednesday.
The program, now in its fourth year and operating in five areas of the state, is designed to increase moose and caribou numbers by reducing the number of predators.
The incentives include offering 180 volunteer pilots and aerial gunners $150 in cash for turning in legs of freshly killed wolves, Gov. Sarah Palin's office announced Tuesday.
The state will use the left forelegs of wolves as biological specimens, which can help biologists determine wolf age and will assist the program in the future, Lloyd said.
Defenders of Wildlife, an advocacy group opposed to the predator control program, said it was outraged by Palin's decision.
"Bounties have no place in modern wildlife management and undoubtedly would lead to the illegal killing of wolves," Karla Dutton, director of the group's Alaska office, said in a statement.
Previously, the only reward was a wolf pelt they could sell, usually for somewhere between $200 and $300, Bruce Bartley, Department of Fish and Game spokesman, told the Anchorage Daily News.
The Palin administration is anteing up cash because the number of wolf kills this winter is behind schedule. State biologists wanted 382 to 664 wolves killed by the time the snow that helps with tracking disappears this spring. The predator-control season ends April 30.
As of Tuesday morning, 98 wolves had been killed by aerial gunners, hunters and trappers.
Pilots have complained that fuel prices are too high to fly and there hasn't been enough snow on the ground to track the elusive animals, said Matt Robus, Division of Wildlife Conservation director. There are also fewer wolves to kill now because of kills in past years, he said.
More than 600 wolves have been killed under the program. The state estimates there are between 7,000 and 11,000 wolves in Alaska.
The Board of Game recently urged Palin to let state staff shoot wolves from helicopters.
Shooting from helicopters that hover close to packs would be more deadly and humane than from the airplanes that are currently allowed, board members have said.
Palin has asked Fish and Game officials to charter helicopters only as a last resort.
The governor prefers cash incentives because they are less expensive than renting helicopters, and the income helps families where the wolf killing occurs, Leighow said.
The state also plans to share information with program volunteers on where the wolves have been spotted.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
i'm learning as i'm reading along here. it is a controversial issue as was stated in the last article you posted and as evidenced by this thread. i didn't realize that moose and caribou were a staple in the diets of native alaskans who might not have food otherwise. at the same time, it's really difficult to think about the suffering of the animals with these horrid kill methods described above not limited to the aerial shootings--the killing of the cubs in their dens, the bloodied knives which cause the wolves to bleed to death, the taut wads piercing their stomachs. just awful.
question. don't laugh. i'm ignorant on this and on hunting period. does or has anyone eaten wolf meat? since they're plentiful, that would seem a solution to this.
Basically, if the wolf lobby gets it's way - there will be no hunting !
Period.
The wolves gobble up all the yummy critters, there's basically no hunting left, the yummy critters die off, wolves are off limits for hunting (protected predator class) and no more hunting is the final result.
X - am I close ?
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
And in the world of Obamalamadingdongs, if there's no hunting - there's really no need for guns !
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Alaskan Group Asks for Permission to Kill Wolf Pups
You just don't get it, do you.. This is just the type of article, that the left can use against Hunting. They can put up some pictures of Wolf Pups and everyone's heart strings are pulled.. and the next thing you know, we have more laws against moral hunting.. But damn anyone, that says what I just did.. they have to be against hunting..
It is you and your type of hunters, that will cost us our rights, to hunt in this country..
Basically, if the wolf lobby gets it's way - there will be no hunting !
Yes and No.. there are some groups that want a total ban on all Hunting and the Ownership of Guns. There are some groups that are using this type of Hunting, to push for Outlawing Guns, the Hunting part is just the means. Then there groups that want a balance manner of Hunting.
Then on the Hunting side of the issue, there are groups that join the above group, in having a balanced manner in Hunting. And then there are those like X, that seem to have a No Limit of the how and where.
And then there are those like X, that seem to have a No Limit of the how and where.
I don't see 'no limit' coming from X.
4um Traitor "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Not that I know of. I do know of some people that tried to eat coyote meat in an attempt to utilize more than just the hide/skull/claws and they couldn't drown it in enough BBQ sauce to make it palatable, I'm guessing wolf would be no better. Contrast with the fact that you can eat bear and mountain lion/panther steaks and it's supposed to be good eating.
Wildlife management has NEVER led to the extermination of any animal, unregulated hunting has. The FedGov tried to exterminate the coyote in the Lower 48 from the mid-1940's to the late 1950's and couldn't do it. The wolves aren't going anywhere.
Did you know that there are wolves in France? They're "protected", but the villagers still kill them and frustrate the French FedGov.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
You got it. It's a backdoor method to eventually ban all hunting by showing cute, cuddly wolf pup pictures along with evil films of wolves being shot. Notice that ONLY WHITE MEN are shown killing wolves, not eskimo's/Indians/blacks. Deduce what you want from that, too.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
Digest the following dilemna in contrast to the issue of wolves in Alaska. The problem: too many elk. The solution: shoot them. The enviro-weenie complaint: let the wolves do it. The problem with that: $$$$$$. What SHOULD have happened all along: regulated hunting by the citizens.
Elk Shooting Begins At Rocky Mountain National Park Up To 100 Elk Will Be 'Culled'
ESTES PARK, Colo. -- Elk roaming throughout Rocky Mountain National Park are being taken down one-by-one as a federal program to thin the herd gets under way.
Wednesday was the first day of the so-called "culling" operation, a controversial program meant to save the park's willow and aspen stands, which have been ravaged by the largest concentrated elk herd in the country.
The team of six to 10 volunteer hunters had trained with national park and Colorado Division of Wildlife rangers.
"The culling team has a primary shooter, a primary observer, a secondary shooter, and a secondary observer," said Larry Rogstad, with the Colorado Division of Wildlife.
Sharpshooters spotted the first herd shortly after gathering in the shadow of Longs Peak Wednesday morning, but they quickly scrapped the target because the rocky hillside didn't offer a safe shot.
"This is a heavily visited area -- Rocky Mountain National Park. And we want to ensure there is an immediate backstop behind every animal before we shoot," said Ben Bobowski, with Rocky Mountain National Park.
Soon after, a female elk was spotted in Upper Beaver Meadows and immediately taken down.
"The animal separated itself from the herd and was down in a matter of seconds," Bobowski said.
After 11 years of research, feedback and planning, the National Park Service decided to go with the culling program, with the intent that trained volunteer hunters would shoot only one or two female elk a day.
"Out of respect for the animal and the integrity of the ecosystem, it's important to do this right now," Bobowski said.
The National Park Service has been criticized for culling because there were other options. The idea of fertility control is still being researched but the DOW said reintroducing wolves to the park would not work.
"To intensely manage a pack of wolves would take an exorbitant amount of resources," Rogstad said.
Fences that encompass 61 acres have been erected in three areas to protect vegetation but fencing the entire park was impractical. The vegetation serves as food for other animals such as beaver, badgers, birds and butterflies.
The elk cannot be relocated because of chronic wasting disease.
"Moving an animal with a potential disease is certainly not a good idea," Rogstad said.
After each elk is shot, it will be tested for chronic wasting disease and then its carcass will be given away to winners of a lottery. Rogstad said 5,400 people applied to receive the meat. Selected winners will get all the meat from one carcass at no cost. The individual who gets the carcass will not get the head of the animal, which will be kept for research.
Kyle Patterson, spokeswoman for RMNP, said the number of elk killed in the culling operation pales in comparison to the number of elk legally hunted in Colorado, outside the park. In 2007, 49,000 elk were killed in the state and in 2006, 57,000 elk were killed by hunters. Patterson said a total of 1,174 of those killed in 2006 and 2007 combined were in Game Unit 20, which sits right outside RMNP.
Public hunting in the national park was outlawed in 1929 and it remains illegal.
The culling operation will occur every weekday until mid-March, pending good weather. Rocky Mountain National Park hopes to have 100 to 200 elk killed by the end of the season.
The estimated cost of the program will vary year to year, but the annual cost is estimated at $200,000, DOW officials said.
Culling takes place in many areas of the country. The DOW said it is an efficient and humane way to control and reduce herds when herd populations have exceeded the carrying capacity of their habitat.
There are about 600 to 800 elk in the park and 1,000 to 1,300 elk in and around the nearby town of Estes Park.
Rotara/christine: here's the flip side to the "elk problem" in RMNP that should blow your mind when you combine it with EVERYTHING I've flung at FormerLurker to combat his bullshit:
DENVER -- An environmental group is asking federal officials not to go through with plans to use sharpshooters to thin the elk herds in Rocky Mountain National Park.
WildEarth Guardians says in a letter sent Wednesday that the planned culling would violate a long-standing policy against most firearms in national parks.
"National Parks are supposed to be sanctuaries from firearms," said Rob Edward of WildEarth Guardians. "The National Park Service is using members of the public to solve with rifles that which should be the bailiwick of wolves," said Edward.
The Bush administration repealed the firearms ban, but a gun-control group is suing to have it reinstated.
WildEarth Guardians also says park officials didn't fully consider the release of wolves to reduce the herds before it decided on sharpshooters.
Park officials approved a plan to shoot a limited number of elk over 20 years because of overgrazing they say has damaged habitat and threatened other species.
SO, DEFENDERS OF WILDLIFE IS AGAINST WOLF HUNTING/MANAGEMENT IN ALASKA (THEY START WITH BEING OUTRAGED OVER AERIAL SHOOTING, BUT IT'S REALLY ALL HUNTING). WILDEARTH GUARDIANS IS AGAINST CULLS/HUNTING OF ELK IN RMNP AND WANTS WOLVES INTRODUCED TO KILL ELK. IT COSTS $200,000 TO CULL ELK WHICH HAVE BEEN OFF- LIMITS TO HUNTING IN RMNP SINCE 1929, A HUGE MISTAKE WHICH IS SELF-EVIDENT. THE WOLF LOBBY CAN GO TO HELL.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
You have to wonder what the secondary effects of culling are. Didn't work out so well for elephants. Not advocating against it just wondering. Elephants are self aware so that may make a difference.
#383. To: X-15, Refinersfire, Rotara (#277)(Edited)
Fuck you and fuck FormerLurker, I know what kind of cock-sucking bastards you two really are
You certainly have cock on your mind X-15, as you mention it a lot. But no thanks on whatever proposition you seem to be making.
you want to ban ALL hunting and you start with the wolves/polar bears/etc. in increments.
You sound like the rabid pro-abortion freaks who were raving about how if there were a ban against partial-birth abortions, then ALL abortions would become illegal (as if that would be a bad thing).
However, as I've said at least several times here, I have no quarrel with those who hunt for food because they NEED to. My issue is with those who do it for fun.
As far as weapons, I certainly believe people have the RIGHT to own weapons to DEFEND themselves. If they need to use those weapons to hunt for food, then so be it, but to kill for pure enjoyment is depraved.
In regards to the topic of this thread, it is still highly dubious as to whether there is need for human intervention in order for caribou and moose herds to flourish. The numbers you mention in your reports from the State of Alaska make no sense, where it is claimed that each wolf is responsible for the loss of 12 moose or 24 caribou per year. That's saying that each wolf devours an entire moose each month, or two caribou each month. Perhaps a full grown lion would eat that much, but I find the estimate a bit high for a wolf...
Regardless, nature has always balanced the numbers on its own, and doesn't need man's help in controlling those numbers.
Of course there is no mention of what ELSE could be thinning the moose and caribou herds, such as the case of calves not surviving to maturity. Could it be environmental issues, such as aerial spraying (chemtrails), pollution (mercury), or other as of yet unknown reasons?
Has anybody even tried to collar some calves to see what happens to them?
FUCK YOU!!
Again, no thanks. Perhaps you can ask Rotara, he might be able to accommodate your needs...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You can't prove millions of years. Nothing you said proved shit except that you are a religious person. Your religion is evilution. It is your religion becasue you grasped hold of it because it said no God. Well believe what you want. People are still allowed to be stupid in this country.
Your comment here Nobody with a lick of sense regarding science denies that theory of evolution is scientific.
You are one stupid person. All scientists that practice true science would admit that evolution is foolish.
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How did grass evolve?
How did eyes evolve.
Evolution doesn't have any answers to anything. Your religion is a stinking corpse.
All scientists that practice true science would admit that evolution is foolish.
Name some.
You don't even know what science is apparently, you seem to think it's a religion or something...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Perhaps you'd like to say that to my face fucktard. Oh what a christian person you are, now you're ready to start shooting people who disagree with your urge to kill defenseless animals.
You are a disciple of satan if you are anything at all...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
But he created time and our world is governed by it. Damn your slow
Hey idiot, how many hours are there in a day on Jupiter, Mars, or other worlds? Did it take him 24 hour days there as well, or did he make those in a different number of hour days?
You are a joke. NOWHERE in the Bible does it mention what a day is in terms of God, and for you to think it does shows you don't even know what the Bible says and doesn't say.
Besides, God doesn't write books, and for men to claim they speak for God is blasphemy.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Ricky, I have no difficulty distinguishing faith from science.
You are delusional. You can't distinguish the world right in front of your eyes from make believe. You know nothing of science. What you are calling science is nothing but a retard's faith.
You know nothing of science. What you are calling science is nothing but a retard's faith.
Hey Ricky, why don't you show us what you know about science. What does the atomic number of an element represent?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Hey idiot, how many hours are there in a day on Jupiter, Mars, or other worlds? Did it take him 24 hour days there as well, or did he make those in a different number of hour days?
I don't know why I bother with you sometimes. You need to go back to gradeschool.
God spoke to the people of this planet. Day and night cycles on this planet. 24 hours. Are you stupid or something. Why do you ask such stupid questions?
Tell me what came first the fuck or the child. How to people get here without a fuck happening first? There wasn't even any sperm unless there was a man first. Nowhere to stick it unless there was a woman. A real problem for your evil cult religion that they can't answer. I know they think we came from mud and monkeys. Keep tickling your ear with what you want to hear.
Perhaps you'd like to say that to my face fucktard. Oh what a christian person you are, now you're ready to start shooting people who disagree with your urge to kill defenseless animals.
If you want to take peoples food away. You should obviously be hunted. Then people can hunt in peace. Go eat some grass you stupid cow.
So since it isn't mentioned in the Bible, God couldn't have created the other planets in the solar system, right?
Tell me what came first the fuck or the child.
Well gee whiz dude, I guess nobody ever taught you about the "birds and the bees", eh?
What are you, 8 years old? I'll fill you in on a little secret. It wasn't the child...
A real problem for your evil cult religion that they can't answer. I know they think we came from mud and monkeys.
That you believe in magical thinking is quite obvious. Poof, here's the Earth. Poof, all of a sudden it's teaming with life, and poof, here's a guy called Adam who is the one who banged Eve and made us all, without ever wondering how we could all get here without a large amount of incest going on.
You don't even acknowledge that Adam as originally written means HUMANS, and was NOT a single man as your magical fairytale insists.
You also are ignorant of most 20th century science, and are more than likely ignorant of earlier developments, such as Newtonian physics, astronomy, and any sort of math past elementary arithmetic.
Thankfully, there are more intelligent people on this planet than you.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Try it asshole. If my Rottweiler doesn't get you, Mr. Mossberg or Mr. Glock might have something to say to you about it...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
And you are of course a lying prick. I've made it clear that I don't have a quarrel with those who hunt for food out of necessity, I have a problem with douchbags who do it because they ENJOY TO KILL.
Perhaps you should go visit your pals, the Israelis. You could go kill a whole bunch of little Pali kids, that'd turn you on, wouldn't it...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Well gee whiz dude, I guess nobody ever taught you about the "birds and the bees", eh?
Then quit saying we evolved. It is insulting to people with working brains.
It is a huge problem for your gutter religion of ignoring Christ and worshiping the creatures and thinking they came from the spontaneous combustion of mud.
So if evolution is true tell me how people got here before fucking was possible. Come on your cult is depending on you.
And you are of course a lying prick. I've made it clear that I don't have a quarrel with those who hunt for food out of necessity, I have a problem with douchbags who do it because they ENJOY TO KILL.
Then quit saying we evolved. It is insulting to people with working brains.
For you to believe in fairytales shows where YOUR brain is at. That you can't understand things that normal adults can indicates that you are developmentally challenged.
Evolution covers the entire chain of events from the first microbes to the first fish in the sea, to the first amphibious creatures, to birds, and finally mammals. That we weren't there to see exactly what happened over billions of years means we can't know exactly how it all happened, but it did happen nonetheless.
That you rely on the words of men living in the desert several thousands of years ago as your ultimate truth and answer to how it all happened shows how stupid you truly are. If all of what they say happened did in fact happen, then we'd be seeing such things today and there would be no doubt as to it's accuracy.
The fact is, the very people who have maintained the scriptures over the thousands of years readily acknowledge that much of what is in the Torah (Old Testament) are simply stories meant to teach a spiritual lesson, and are not necessarily accurate descriptions of what truly happened at the dawn of time.
Add to that thought. The words of men are NOT the words of God. For you to consider those men spokesmen for God Himself shows how little you think of God, and how small your mind is. You apparently are so gullible you'd believe anyone who claims to be speaking for God, if what they were saying agreed with what your notion of God is.
It is a huge problem for your gutter religion of ignoring Christ
It is YOU who ignores the teachings of Jesus and spits on him by using his name in your homicidal arguments.
worshiping the creatures and thinking they came from the spontaneous combustion of mud.
Nobody is talking about WORSHIPPING animals, but YOU are saying they materialized out of thin air. If anything, you haven't read the part of the Bible where it is written that Man comes from dust.
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
You obviously don't even know what is written in that Bible you constantly thump on.
So if evolution is true tell me how people got here before fucking was possible. Come on your cult is depending on you.
Did you know that bacteria don't fuck? Tell me why they don't fuck, c'mon, your religion depends upon you...
In all seriousness, animals have fucked since there were animals, and even fish fuck.
That's the part of the Bible you can't seem to understand, in that God created NOT just humans, but ALL living things as male and female.
Even microbobes have facets of both, along with some plants, although many species of plants DO have both male and female.
And you see, science isn't a religion. Religion requires blind faith and unquestioning obedience to that doctrine. Science is the pursuit of knowledge, and is ever changing as new discoveries are made.
For people such as you, that is unacceptable. You NEED to be told why you are here, how everything was made, and have it told to you in a way a child would be able to understand. Complexity is not acceptable, and anything that conflicts with your fairytale version of life and Creation is a lie.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Evolution covers the entire chain of events from the first microbes to the first fish in the sea, to the first amphibious creatures,
It is a made up fairy tale where frogs turn into people. Talk about a dumb. Anyway it doesn't cover shit. They can't demonstrate it in the lab. Junk science.
Nobody is talking about WORSHIPPING animals, but YOU are saying they materialized out of thin air. If anything, you haven't read the part of the Bible where it is written that Man comes from dust.
"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
They didn't get here spontaneously or evolve. They were created. Duh..
Yeah you worship animals. Wolves and other food creatures.
First off, I'm not the one who said I'd hunt a person down, YOU did. In fact, you said you wanted to hunt ME down.
That show's how much of a "christian" you are, and what sort of god you worship, as only an evil person would want to hunt down another human, thus, since you are evil, you must worship an evil god, such as satan.
You USE the Bible as an excuse to do whatever the hell you want, tricking people into thinking you're some sort of "christian" soldier, where in fact you are a murderous bastard who worships satan.
I get a kick out of fuckwits like you, you prove to me how fucked up people can be, not that I needed further proof, but you certainly do so nonetheless.
Now, if you really want to hunt me down, you need to do it on your own. You see, I'm not going to tell you where I live to make your task easier.
BUT, if you do actually locate me, I will rip your fucking throat out if I'm close enough. If not, I have a few tools at my disposal, on the chance you might try to shoot me from a distance.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Actually, JESUS said that eating animal flesh was a sin. Do you think I'm Jesus?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Religion requires blind faith and unquestioning obedience to that doctrine. Science is the pursuit of knowledge, and is ever changing as new discoveries are made.
That was a really dumb statement. Here is why.
First it is not blind faith. It is based on the word. You don't get that though.
Second. If science is the purist of knowledge? Then why is it always changing?
Science is the law of gravity. Things that can be proven. Your gutter cult religion of evilution isn't science. It is a fairy tale for haters of God and his judgements and his righteousness. So you can have a reason not to believe the truth. You believe a lie. And it is kind of funny because it is such a stupid lie that only fools fall for.
It is a made up fairy tale where frogs turn into people.
Shows how much you know. Please provide a link to a scientific source that states what you just said.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Show me something that is evolving. You can't can you.
Viruses are CONSTANTLY evolving. You are a total idiot, aren't you...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
ALL of the original Christians were against eating animal flesh, since they derived their beliefs from the Essenes, who were adamently oppposed to eating animal flesh. You show me where scientists have said humans come from frogs, and I'll find some texts that might show you what Jesus said about eating animal flesh. Of course, those gospels aren't the same gospels you know about, as they aren't the bastardized versions that were heavily edited and rewritten by the Romans.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
bacteria turns into X , X turn into Y. Y turns into Z. Z turns into a frog. A frog turns into C. C turns into a person.
So that is the science of evolution according to Dr. Old Friend, chief idiot and moron.
Ok, well that doesn't fly. I want the scientific explanation of how a frog turns into a man. You made the claim, now post the scientific evidence.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Viruses ARE always evolving into new species of viruses, shit for brains.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is telling the National Prayer Breakfast that even though faith too often has been used "as a tool to divide us from one another," there is no religion in the world that is based on hatred.
Obama, in prepared remarks, said, "There is no God who condones taking the life of an innocent human being."
Obama is also telling the gathering that the White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships that he is announcing Thursday won't favor any religious group, or favor religious groups over secular groups.
He says it will help organizations that want to "work on behalf of our communities," without "blurring the line" between church and state.
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is telling the National Prayer Breakfast that even though faith too often has been used "as a tool to divide us from one another," there is no religion in the world that is based on hatred.
That would be nice if that were true. At least Obama appears to mean well...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I think 21st century religions ARE based on hate, where they may not have been so originally, but have EVOLVED into that over time...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
First it is not blind faith. It is based on the word.
Prove to me that the Bible is the word of God. You can't, nor can anyone else.
If science is the purist of knowledge? Then why is it always changing? Science is the law of gravity.
Because we are limited in our knowledge, yet we can define and measure what we can detect, and theorize about what we observe.
Tell me, what IS gravity? Do you know? I don't mean tell me what it does, I mean, what is it...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
None of us is innocent except babies and children.
So that's your justification for murder then is it?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Because we are limited in our knowledge, yet we can define and measure what we can detect, and theorize about what we observe.
Ok theorize about what you observe. Hmm. All life reproduces after like kind. Simple observation. No one ever saw anything evolve. When I plant an apple tree I have never got some strange new tree.
There is no problem with science. There is a problem with cultists like you who think they know what science is. No you just want to reject Gods word probably because there is some kind of sin in your life you don't want to give up. So you cling to that faith in man and his made up evilution religion.
If you want to talk about this anymore make a new thread. This thread is about wolves.
All life reproduces after like kind. Simple observation. No one ever saw anything evolve. When I plant an apple tree I have never got some strange new tree.
I guess you never looked into how dog breeders have developed new breeds of dogs. As far as trees, do you think all species of trees have always existed?
Changes leading to new species generally take MILLIONS of years to come about. However, there is much in the way of fossil evidence that does indicate there were fewer species way back millions of years ago, and there IS fossil evidence of primative men who were vastly different than Homo Sapiens, such as Neanderthal man.
Don't preach to me about God you murderous leech, you are nothing but a coward and a hypocrite, as well as an idiot and a fool. You are a poster child for religious lunacy in America, and give true Christians a bad name...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I guess you never looked into how dog breeders have developed new breeds of dogs. As far as trees, do you think all species of trees have always existed?
They are still dogs. They are producing after like kind.
I guess in your simple little mind every new kid born is a new species since none of look exactly the same.
Get off the internet and get your coloring book and crayons back out.
I said maybe those hunters being harrassed should start hunting the anti hunters.
I saw some of these freaks like you protesting outside KFC. With their little slogans meat is murder. Quit torturing chickens. So I turned around and got some chicken. Ate it right in front of the freaks. Saying. mmmm.. This is good. You should try some.
I noticed you never responded to the proof you said existed that Jesus said not to eat meat. Come on boy put up.
What is gravity? C'mon Mr. Knowitall, break out the Bible and tell me what it is...
Hey, it's NOT in the Bible is it. Hmmm, maybe God didn't create it then, right?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I said maybe those hunters being harrassed should start hunting the anti hunters.
You said you wanted to hunt ME as well. So you issued a death threat against me, and wish for ALL those who are against killing for pleasure to be killed.
You are a murderous raving fucking lunatic, yet you expect to be taken seriously as a man of God?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You are. C'mon, tell me what gravity is, I'm still waiting...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I noticed you never responded to the proof you said existed that Jesus said not to eat meat. Come on boy put up.
I very well could post some info, but I doubt you'd take the time to read it. I'M still waiting for you to post some proof that scientists have said humans come from frogs.
And I don't mean your childish theories, I mean REAL proof, such as a link to a scientific paper or publication...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Seriously make another thread to talk about this stuff. Please.
You claim to know a lot about science, so prove it, tell me what gravity is.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
You are delusional. You can't distinguish the world right in front of your eyes from make believe. You know nothing of science. What you are calling science is nothing but a retard's faith.
Einstein was a retard? The psuedo followers of Christ on this site are providing a dimal example of the faith and Christianity as a whole.
You can't prove millions of years. Nothing you said proved shit except that you are a religious person. Your religion is evilution. It is your religion becasue you grasped hold of it because it said no God. Well believe what you want. People are still allowed to be stupid in this country.
Your comment here Nobody with a lick of sense regarding science denies that theory of evolution is scientific.
You are one stupid person. All scientists that practice true science would admit that evolution is foolish.
You can't prove that is wasn't.......that's my point. Nothing you said proved shit except that you are a psuedo Christian who is incapable of setting an example of following the words, actions and deeds of Jesus Christ.
You don't know what my religion is. What you have is ASSumptions. BTW, the theory of evolution does not say "no God" and you would understand that had you ever read the content.
Yes, you are a fine example of stupidity. Find me one scientist who deems the theory non-scientific. Do you even understand what non-scientific means? I do not think that you do. What the hell is "true science"? Is that like a "true Christian" who behaves contrary to the teachings of Christ and sets and example of hypocricy to follow?
God is outside of time numbnuts. But he created time and our world is governed by it. Damn your slow
Damn you are a walking contradiction. If God is outside time, who shall deem one of His days 24 hours? What no response to the warnings of following the scribes and the prophets? What no mention of Biblical contradictions?
I thought you said that a day was 24 hours, Old Friend. Peter contradicts your statement within the "infallible" Bible. Don't you even read the Bible you profess to be the science of life on Earth? Obviously not.
We are subject to time not God. Not that complicated.
Huh? Did you mean to say that time is more powerful than God, or was that a typo?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Yet those who believe in magical tales are brilliant, eh?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Actually, JESUS said that eating animal flesh was a sin. You are a liar. Come on quote it. You can't.
Here's what was said, which resolves dispute on this issue: One believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not, and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth....... He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks: and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. Romans, xiv, 2- 3,6.
It's not WHAT you eat, it is being thankful for whatever you eat that counts. The whole point of ritualistic killing of animals was to center the people on being grateful for what they were going to eat and humble in regards to the life that was given to sustain them.
It's not WHAT you eat, it is being thankful for whatever you eat that counts. The whole point of ritualistic killing of animals was to center the people on being grateful for what they were going to eat and humble in regards to the life that was given to sustain them.
Now those are wise words. I can agree with you there.
Romans was written by Paul of Tarsus (and/or his Roman masters), who never met Jesus, and whose words and teachings conflict with what the true apostles taught.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Former has his own custom religion. He just discovered this essence bullshit two weeks ago. He fell for it hard.
Uh, I've known about the Essenes (an ancient Jewish sect) for over a decade. I've read about it in detail several weeks ago, and found it quite interesting that there IS a WHOLE lot of evidence that the New Testament is a work of fiction and that the original writings of the apostles were burned.
Do you deny that Jesus of Nazarath was a Nazarene (Essene)?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
If God is outside time, who shall deem one of His days 24 hours?
We are subject to time not God. Not that complicated.
Peter contradicts your statement within the "infallible" Bible.
Please show me what you believe to be a contradiction. Maybe I can clear it up for you or maybe not.
Old Friend, I have already posted TWO scriptures that indicate one day is a thousand years for God. I still find this subjective as the scribes wrote it down. A third reference to a day is a thousand years can be cound in N.T. Apocrypha: Barnabus, xiii, 3-4. Have you read Enoch or any of the other books omitted from the Bible by the church and mortal men?
You are subject to your own feeble mind where the constructs of linear time make life easier for mere mortals to adjust. The scribes who wrote the Bible were subject to this perception as well, hence not able to transcend any notion of time in the realm of the infinate. The contradiction is that YOU think YOU can determine, from your feeble perception of linear time, God's thoughts on the issue. I, on the other hand, believe that Einstein was much closer to the truth regarding time, singularity and infinite.
I, on the other hand, believe that Einstein was much closer to the truth regarding time, singularity and infinite.
And threw a serious curve ball with ring singularities...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
Please forgive me for my participation on the diversion from the initial thread content. The libertarian in me has to side on Alaska's state rights to determine adequate land and wildlife management. : )
The numbers you mention in your reports from the State of Alaska make no sense, where it is claimed that each wolf is responsible for the loss of 12 moose or 24 caribou per year. That's saying that each wolf devours an entire moose each month, or two caribou each month. Perhaps a full grown lion would eat that much, but I find the estimate a bit high for a wolf...
Read it again: they don't eat them all, they KILL them because they can. That's right, they're natural born killers. That's the nature of wolves you will deny to your dying day because it's just another monkey wrench in your flawed logic.
_________________________________________________________________________ "This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!” -Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
No place is better than Turtle Island.
