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Title: My Six-Foot-Long Left Arm
Source: Unclebob's Treehouse
URL Source: [None]
Published: Apr 10, 2008
Author: Bob Wallace
Post Date: 2008-04-10 07:33:32 by YertleTurtle
Keywords: None
Views: 271
Comments: 31

I have serious doubts about macro-evolution, i.e., one species changing into another. It came about in an odd sort of way. It was because of an encounter with the gate where I used to work.

To enter the parking lot, I had to roll down my car's window and punch a code into a box. The gate would roll open to my right. When I left, I had to roll down my window and press a green button. Since I was at the same gate, but facing the other way, the gate opened to my left. But it never opened far enough to exit. I had to back my car up and angle it to the right to clear the gate. It occurred to me if I had a left arm that was six feet long, I would have been able to press the button without backing my car up.

So one day I tried to imagine how I could evolve a six-foot-long left arm. The first thing, I’d have to find a woman with a left arm slightly longer than her right. Then we'd have to have kids. The resulting kids with normal-sized arms would have to be prevented from reproducing -- neuter them, I guess, or maybe just drown them in a sack..

The kids with a longer-than-normal left arms couldn't reproduce with each other, since such incest would quickly de-evolve them into a state of dim-bulbness generally seen only in Hollywood liberals. So they would have to find mates with long left arms and have kids with them. But their offspring would have to consciously find mates with long left arms. After thousands of years, I figured the left arm could be evolved to be six feet long. I mean, if we were able to consciously and intentionally "evolve" all dog breeds this way, couldn't we do the same with humans? If my long-ago ancestors had done this, I would be lopsided enough to open the gate without backing my car up.

This, of course, is ridiculous. Yet a version of this wackiness is what I was essentially what I was taught in the Brain Laundries know as public school. I was taught it in jr. high, high school and college. The version I often ran across was the one of Richard Dawkins’ confabulations – that of the flying squirrel.

Dawkins argued that when squirrels jumped from tree to tree, evolution favored ones with pouches of skin on their sides, between the front and back limbs. After millions of genetic mutations, through millions of years, we ended up with Rocky J. Squirrel.

Now just imagine how this really works. A squirrel (a very stupid squirrel) attempts to jump from one tree to another. He doesn't make it and plummets to his death (this keeps him from reproducing). Generation after generation of moronic squirrels continue to jump and plunge to their demises. Finally, through random genetic mutation, "evolution" grows membranes on the sides. Don’t ask me how this happens. I suggest you don’t ask Dawkins, either. He’d probably go all scientific-bag-lady-screaming-in-the-street.

I guess membranes also grew on the top of the head and various other places, but they weren't any good for flight, so somehow these squirrels also died before reproducing. It would have been really cool if somehow these head membranes had evolved into a perfect facsimile of a leather flying helmet and goggles, just like a WWI fighter pilot.

Rocky then, somehow, find his true love (who also happens to have to membranes on her sides) and they have lots of little baby squirrels. The offspring grows up and somehow, somewhere, finds mates who just happen to have these membranes. After untold generations, voila' -- we have modern-day flying squirrels. This is the exact same mechanism by which I was supposed to evolve an arm as long as I am tall.

This isn't science. It’s alchemy. Laughably inept alchemy.

I have asked various Darwinian evolutionists if it would be possible for humans to evolve a six-foot-long left arm. I was told there are "genetic limitations" to what can be done with humans, just as with dog breeds. A dog can be made the size of a Chihuahua, but not a mouse. They can be made the size of a Great Dane, but not an elephant.

"If there are genetic limitations on species," I asked, "then how could one ever evolve into another?"

I've never gotten an answer to that. I've never gotten a believable answer as to why, out of over one hundred million fossils discovered, none are transitional. I was told "punctuated equilibrium" ("punk eek" to the irreverent) was the answer, but when I asked for proof, none was forthcoming. If I asked why no one had ever seen evolution, I was told "there hasn't been enough time." When I commented that the last known species came into existence twenty million to thirty million years ago (which certainly is enough time for something to evolve), I never got an answer. When I suggested that many bacteria reproduce several times an hour, and scientists have subjected billions of generations of bacteria to every conceivable stimuli, and still failed to make them evolve, I was still told "there hasn't been enough time." When I suggested evolutionary theory isn't science because it's not reproducible, I was told "it's the best explanation we have so far."

In other words, I didn’t get any answers, only rationalizations.

When Dawkins commented there is an enormous amount of information in our genes, I've asked evolutionists where this "information" is at. You can't see it, smell it, hear it, touch it...it's a non-material "idea" (and could that be just another word for spiritual?). Most of them didn't even know what I was talking about (it's a philosophical problem called Universals, which is about whether or not "ideas" exist only in our heads or "outside" in "objective reality").

When I suggested materialistic evolutionists were arguing in a circle and begging the question by assuming that evolution was true before they tried to prove it, I was told that science was based on materialism, therefore materialistic evolution had to be true. When I suggested that reality could only make sense if we assumed there was a rational, discoverable, non-material mathematical structure inherent in the universe, and that the universe would be a chaotic mush without it (again, the problem of Universals) most didn't know what I was talking about. When I suggested that the materialistic foundation of science is based on faith, and is therefore a kind of "religion," I was met with contempt.

Try as hard as I can, I can't find the slightest scrap of evidence that one species ever turned into another. And this is from someone who was taught it and originally believed it.

I blame most of this state of affairs on the State's interference in education. Most evolutionists seem to think that if the government didn't have its hand in education, and we had private schools, all of them would immediately sink to the level of fundamentalist Christians teaching evolutionary theory is the work of the Devil and that every word of the Bible is literally true. And that, sooner or later, the whole country would be run by a Christian version of the Taliban.

On the other hand, if the State didn't meddle with education, and we had nothing but private schools, maybe the competition would force legitimate, scientific criticisms of evolutionary theory to be taught. And then teachers couldn't tell "Just-So" stories about retarded flying squirrels crashing into the ground without being met with a barrage of criticism from the students. And that kind of competition and criticism just might advance evolutionary theory into something more rational that it is now...

I guess it's a good thing evolution doesn't exist. If it did, I'd have a heck of a time typing with one arm that much longer than the other.


Poster Comment:

When I ask evolutionists to explain how one species turned into another, I mean write a little story like this one. None ever took me up on the challenge, because they cannot do it. They don't have the slightest idea how it happened, and the honest ones admit it.

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#1. To: YertleTurtle (#0)

When I ask evolutionists to explain how one species turned into another, I mean write a little story like this one. None ever took me up on the challenge, because they cannot do it. They don't have the slightest idea how it happened, and the honest ones admit it.

Bullshit.

Now I have to write a f___ing story?

Yeah, I don't think so.

I did take you up on the challenge.

I told you 'genetic mutations and natural selection'.

That is my slightest idea.

Just because I don't have a million years to slow down the video and show you exactly how it happened, don't mean it didn't happen.

Am I being punked?


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   7:41:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: YertleTurtle, tom007 (#0)

Ok Mr. Knowitall...

Considering you most likely DO have a six foot long left arm, where are your left pockets located?????

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-10   8:04:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: YertleTurtle (#0)

This tale reeks.

Out of all the appendages a male would want to evolve, his left arm wouldn't be the 1st thing that comes to mind.

I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-10   8:30:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Jethro Tull, Yertle Turtle, tom 007 (#3)

Assuming you read all of the Turtle diatribe, surely you would agree that Turtle is suffering from massive "squirrleitis of the brain". Any competent doctor would tell you that is caused by a diet consisting of too much squirrel meat.

It is never fatal but it does tend to make the brain lean to the left, hence his penchant for a longer left arm.

As for any other appendages, would you care to elucidate in a purely scientific manner????

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-10   8:47:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Cynicom (#4)


~ 2- 3 squirrels
~ bbq sauce
~ ketchup
~ water
~ minced onion
~ pepper
~ your favorite spices

In a bowl mix some bbq sauce and ketchup together to taste. Slightly water it down. Adjust taste if needed.

Rub the sauce into the squirrels.

Place on hot grill.

Sprinkle with the onion, pepper and spices.

Cook on low for 1 - 1 1/2 hours basting occasionally with the sauce.

Serve and enjoy.

I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-10   8:54:19 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Jethro Tull, Yertle Turtle (#5)

Cook on low for 1 - 1 1/2 hours basting occasionally with the sauce.

Therein perhaps lies Turtles problem.

Ozarkers have NOT evolved to the state that will allow a complicated preparation as you suggest and used by most civilized folk.

Turtle knows only one way, shoot 'em, skin 'em, gut 'em and throw 'em in a hot skillet with some fat back. Fried squirrel for breakfast every day of the week.

As you can see, it has affected Turtles brain, long left arm syndrome and all. Poor man.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-10   9:04:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Cynicom, Jethro Tull, Yertle Turtle (#6)

Turtle knows only one way,shoot 'em, skin 'em, gut 'em and throw 'em in a hot skillet with some fat back. Fried squirrel for breakfast every day of the week.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   9:15:52 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: wudidiz, Jethro Tull, Yertle Turtle (#7)

There is a photo of Turtle and his abode somewhere on the net. I have been unable to locate.

The one where Turtle is sitting on the outside commode attached to the deck? Turtle is chatting on his portable, drinking beer and pants at half mast.

You notice Turtle has not responded as to where his left pockets are located????

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-10   9:21:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Cynicom (#8) (Edited)

You notice Turtle has not responded as to where his left pockets are located????

I did.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   9:29:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: All (#9)

I'm going to sleep before something bad happens.

Out.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-10   9:32:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: wudidiz (#10)

Over and out, whiz...happy dreams.

I will grant you that, let's say that there's 10% about Hillary Clinton that we don't know yet, I will grant you that, but I would say there's also about 50% about Barack Obama that we don't know yet," Ed Rendell said.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-04-10   9:46:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: YertleTurtle (#0) (Edited)

I've never gotten an answer to that. I've never gotten a believable answer as to why, out of over one hundred million fossils discovered, none are transitional.

Because you're looking at 40 year old data. But if that's what supports your argument, I guess that's you have to use. I agree that you would look foolish using some of the newer transitional examples from bird evolution.

If you became a Buddhist, then childish tirades about some unsupportable aspect of your belief structure would be below you - and people wouldn't be laughing up their cuffs at you the way they do now. This alone would grant you a sense transcendent peace.

Don't let your snake bite you when you shake it next Sunday morning.

.

...  posted on  2008-04-10   10:28:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: YertleTurtle (#0)

Don’t ask me how this happens. I suggest you don’t ask Dawkins, either. He’d probably go all scientific-bag-lady-screaming-in-the-street.

The error is to think the trees stayed the same while only the squirrel changed.

When I suggested evolutionary theory isn't science because it's not reproducible, I was told "it's the best explanation we have so far."

In other words, I didn’t get any answers, only rationalizations.

That however, is a very good point. It isn't science.

I've asked evolutionists where this "information" is at. You can't see it, smell it, hear it, touch it

You're right; that, too, is not science.

They don't have the slightest idea how it happened

Genau!

...Both methods yielded similar results, which support the previous findings; that is, of all modern human samples, sub-Saharan Africans again exhibit the closest phenetic similarity to various African Plio-Pleistocene hominins...
Ancient teeth and modern human origins: An expanded comparison of African Plio-Pleistocene and recent world dental samples, Journal of Human Evolution Volume 45, Issue 2, August 2003, Pages 113-144

Tauzero  posted on  2008-04-10   11:04:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: YertleTurtle (#0)

The theory of evolution, while subject to analysis and attack, is at least the only standing theory that is subject to such analysis. The only other theory, creationism, is not subject to any analysis since everything, no matter its nature, can simply be explained by a simple "God made it that way".

In terms of analysis, creationism can neither be proven nor disproven.

It may well happen that evolution is disproven. But it's also possible that another theory, another subject to analysis, will be presented in its place.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-04-10   12:04:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: wudidiz (#1)

I told you 'genetic mutations and natural selection'.

Try this.

Dogs have many more genes than people, which is why we can make so many breeds.

I want you to explain EXACTLY how you can take say, a Chihuahua, and evolve it so it has functional wings and can fly.

Here is what you will do:

Chihuahua ---> assume the unproven and so far unprovable, based strictly on faith, i.e. "genetic mutation" (even though there has never been a known beneficial genetic mutation) ---> flying dog.

I'll make it even simpler for you:

Chihuahua ---> magic ---> flying dog.

Go fetch that story! I know you can do it! Good boy! Rowf! Rowf!

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-10   19:51:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Pinguinite (#14)

It may well happen that evolution is disproven.

I am not saying evolution from one species to another does not exist. But I also know that honest evolutionists will say, "We don't have the slightest idea how it happened." Using "genetic mutations" and "natural selection" are weasel words that mean nothing.

I have this theory that the truth cannot be sucessfully mocked and ridiculed. You cannot mock 2+2=4, because it's true. You can mock 2+2=5, because it's false.

Since it's so easy to mock those who refuse to admit there is zero proof that one species turned into another, I conclude there is no proof. Either that, or it didn't happen.

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-10   19:56:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Cynicom (#2)

Considering you most likely DO have a six foot long left arm, where are your left pockets located?????

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-10   19:59:19 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: YertleTurtle (#17)

Ha...gotcha, cant fool me, that is your right leg. And that aint a pocket.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-04-10   20:02:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Cynicom (#18)

Ha...gotcha, cant fool me, that is your right leg. And that aint a pocket.

I accidentally reversed the picture. That's really my left leg.

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-10   20:09:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: YertleTurtle (#15)

For your entertainment

_______  posted on  2008-04-10   20:10:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: YertleTurtle (#15)

I want you to explain EXACTLY how you can take say, a Chihuahua, and evolve it so it has functional wings and can fly.

But a chihuahua didn't evolve wings and fly. Before starting on this track, why don't you tell us why it is even possible a chihuahua to evolve wings - and to fly? A chihuahua isn't an avian ancestor and it might not be possible for this life form to evolve to the life form that you arbitrarily selected.

.

...  posted on  2008-04-10   20:15:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: _______ (#20)

Exactly my point: there are no known beneficial genetic mutations, only harmful ones, and there are no transitional fossils.

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-10   20:18:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: ... (#21)

But a chihuahua didn't evolve wings and fly

You proved my point. You can't do it.

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-10   20:19:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: YertleTurtle (#22)

This comes back to an accountability issue and a Creator, therefore you'll seldom if ever find intellectually honest "opposition".

It's like the neocon masses and their gods including Bush-Cheney, the Republican Party, etc. and the truth about September 11th.

Facts, like those uncovered since the advent of the electron microscope, be damned.

_______  posted on  2008-04-10   20:22:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: YertleTurtle (#23)

You proved my point. You can't do it.

No, I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said I didn't know if it was possible to go from your specified as a starting point to the end point you specified.

Go back and read the post.

You asked for us to explain how a chihuahua can evolve wings. Before doing so, I asked you to prove that it was even possible for chihuahua to evolve wings. Not all paths to new forms are possible you know. Sometimes "A" can go to "B" but "A" can't go to "C".

We don't see dogs with wings and there may be a good reason why. A mouse can't evolve into a car, but a dinosauri descendant can evolve into a bird. The intermediate fossils prove it.

Why don't you first prove that its possible for a chihuahau to evolve wings, or point out a species of dog that has wings, before we waste a lot of time explaining how the process might take place.

I actually doubt if a chihuahua could evolve wings and fly. There is a maximum weight for a flying creature with normal oxygen transport systems - which a chihuahua has. The chihuahua is close to this maximum body weight.

.

...  posted on  2008-04-10   20:49:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: _______ (#24)

Okay so if we go with the creation route, we're to accept that various forms of natural life simply appeared with some kind of supernatural cause. It would seem pointless to investigate the mechanism of creation itself.

True scientists will never accept the idea that they should stop investigating an unknown, and that would include the spontaneous appearance of an animal. Since science is given to hypothesizing reasons for the universe and then setting out to prove or disprove those theories, unless and until science can understand God's means/method of creation, creationism will remain simply an alternate or "default" theory to cite when no other currently existing theory will suffice.

Pinguinite  posted on  2008-04-10   22:11:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Pinguinite (#26)

True and sincere science only confirms what I already know.

_______  posted on  2008-04-10   22:20:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: YertleTurtle (#22) (Edited)

there are no known beneficial genetic mutations,

If that were true, then we wouldn't be able to start with wild plants and animals and wind up with domestic plants and animals.

People started with this grass:

and, by selecting plants with the right mutations, got to corn:

So much for "no known beneficial mutations," a standard line of BS from the Bible bangers. You and they probably eat the results of a beneficial mutation every day.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-04-11   14:37:27 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: YertleTurtle, all (#15)

Rowf! Rowf!

I hope you appreciate this a token of just how much I really love you, Mr. Turtle.

By the way, I never did this for Byteshredder.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-11   16:04:52 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: wudidiz (#29)

I hope you appreciate this a token of just how much I really love you, Mr. Turtle.

Pretty funny.

"The evil man is the child grown strong" - Thomas Hobbes

YertleTurtle  posted on  2008-04-11   21:06:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: YertleTurtle (#30)

Pretty funny.

Yeah thanks, eh?

It's a Chihuahua with wings.

I made it myself.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." ~ Mahatma Ghandi

wudidiz  posted on  2008-04-11   21:11:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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