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Title: John McCain And The USS Forrestal Fire
Source: judicial-inc
URL Source: http://judicial-inc.biz/82jjohn_mccain_and_the_uss_forresta.htm
Published: Mar 10, 2008
Author: judicial-inc
Post Date: 2008-03-10 01:06:57 by TwentyTwelve
Keywords: John McCain, USS Forrestal Fire
Views: 12829
Comments: 39

judicial-inc.biz/82jjohn_..._and_the_uss_forresta.htm

John McCain And The USS Forrestal Fire

USS Forrestal In 1967

132 Dead Sailors, And Countless Wounded

A Small Rocket Hit A Fuel Tank On Another Plane

Where Is The Truth Here?

I have heard five versions of the Forrestal fire, but this one makes sense.

McCain Aviation Career

McCain crashed 5 jets, plus was responsible for the Forrestal fire. Something made the plane behind McCain fired a rocket, which hit McCain's external center fuel tank, and caused a fire. McCain panicked, and dropped two bombs into the fire.

Did He Start The USS Forrestal Fire?

Surviving crewmen and those who investigated the Forrestal fire case reported that McCain deliberately 'wet-started' his A-4E Skyhawk to shake up the guy in the F-4 Phantom behind his plane.

Incompetence Or A Stunt

'Wet-starts', done either deliberately (the starter motor switch allowed kerosene to pool in the engine and give a wet start) or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft. 'Wet starting' was a common practice among young 'hot-dog' pilots.

Zuni Rockets Were Volatile Design

In McCain's case, the 'wet-start' 'cooked off' and launched the M34 Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that punctured the Skyhawk's fueltank, knocked the M-65 1000 lb bomb off it's 500 lb rated mount, and touched off the explosions and massive fire.

The Carrier Oriskany

The USS Oriskany came along side to treat the wounded.

Wounded Flown Out

They were transferred to other ships.

McCain Left With The Wounded

When the carrier Oriskany came along side, and McCain was put in a chopper and whisked away. McCain was the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred

The Forrestal Crew

I have a hunch McCain left for his own safety, because the crew wanted blood.

Source

Is There Any Truth To This?

McCain's various stories never added up. Somehow, he was at the center of the USS Forrestal fire. His father covered up the biggest war crime in American naval history, the USS Liberty attack, and saved Israel. Now, McCain is shot down over Vietnam, and the Jewish/Communists supposedly tortured him half to death? After what McCain's father did for the Communists, he could have demanded anything.

The Zionists cooked the Forrestal story for a reason. They said McCain was on the catapult, but video shows he wasn't.

Whether Obama, Clinton, or McCain get elected doesn't matter. They will all do what the Zionists tell them to do. The Americans will need a fiscal collapse to motivate them, and then they will seek a electoral impeachment/recall.

Video 1 - 2

Who Is John McCain?

Will the USS Liberty haunt McCain?

The truth on Natalee Holloway

The Truth On Wal-Mart

Columbine Massacre

Dov Zakheim

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#1. To: All (#0)

USS Forrestal In 1967

132 Dead Sailors, And Countless Wounded

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-03-10   1:10:10 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: All (#0)

USS Enterprise 1969 Fire

This is a short clip. The entire video is 45 min. For more details go to http://www.militaryvideo.com/store/st... This video documents the tragic fire aboard Enterprise (CVAN-65) in January 1969. The first part of the video is a Navy training film titled "Accidents Don't Just Happen." This narrated film (approximately 10 minutes) compares and contrasts the causes and events leading up to the Oriskany fire in 1966, Forrestal fire in 1967 and Enterprise fire in 1969.

The remainder of the video is not narrated (music soundtrack); and is divided into four parts: activity on Enterprise's flight deck in July 1968, firefighting efforts by sailors aboard Enterprise in January 1969, the aftermath of the fire and damage assessment, and Enterprise's subsequent return to Pearl Harbor.

Added: February 28, 2007

Category: Film & Animation

Tags: USS Enterprise Fire 1969 Navy Aircraft Accident CVAN-65

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-03-10   1:12:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: All (#0)

Forrestal

Senator John McCain survived one of the worst accidents in Navy history.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-03-10   1:14:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: FOH, wudidiz (#3)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/ duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x28956668

John McCain blew up the USS Forrestal - doesn't anybody care?

Edited on Wed Feb-20-08 01:55 PM by TheBorealAvenger

I watched a two hour special on the History Channel last year, about the disastrous fire that almost sank the USS Forrestal back in the '60s.

On that show, they said that the video shows the first missile coming from Lt John McCain's A-4 Skyhawk, hitting another aircraft and starting the fire.

I've been on carriers and I know they are bascially disasters waiting to happen, accidetns and fires happen almost daily (and WERE a daily occurence on the Forrestal when I was on her). What I don't figure is - how come none of the politicos have tried to swiftboat McCain for this? It's prime sleaze politics waiting for a target. Is it because all the swiftboaters work for the GOP?

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-03-10   1:19:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Original_Intent (#4)

Title: John McCain: Unfit to serve as Commander-In-Chief

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-03-10   1:22:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: TwentyTwelve (#4)

Is it because all the swiftboaters work for the GOP?

Yes.


Vote Republicrat or Democin, it doesn't matter, you still get McHillobama

farmfriend  posted on  2008-03-10   1:42:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: farmfriend (#6)

"McCain crashed 5 jets, plus was responsible for the Forrestal fire. Something made the plane behind McCain fired a rocket, which hit McCain's external center fuel tank, and caused a fire. McCain panicked, and dropped two bombs into the fire."

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-03-10   1:57:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: TwentyTwelve (#7)

The most telling of all in the History channel video is this...

When asked what he did while good men were dying McCain says this..

"I went below to be with my friends in sick bay".

Almost all the entire fire crew were killed at the onset, that left it to the crew to save the ship. This SOB did nothing.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-03-10   5:02:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: TwentyTwelve (#0)

Now, McCain is shot down over Vietnam, and the Jewish/Communists supposedly tortured him half to death?

LOL!

I spent a lot of time in SE Asia, and never once did I run into an Jewish Communist. Of course I didn't run into Jane Fonda or John McCain while I was there either. I did see Bob Hope once. From quite a distance.

Sodie Pop  posted on  2008-03-10   18:52:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: TwentyTwelve (#2)

This is a short clip. The entire video is 45 min. For more details go to http://www.militaryvideo.com/store/st...

Do you have a better link for this?


Vote Republicrat or Democin, it doesn't matter, you still get McHillobama

farmfriend  posted on  2008-03-21   16:10:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: TwentyTwelve (#0)

Did He Start The USS Forrestal Fire?

Surviving crewmen and those who investigated the Forrestal fire case reported that McCain deliberately 'wet-started' his A-4E Skyhawk to shake up the guy in the F-4 Phantom behind his plane.

First, let me state that I am not a McCain supporter. I voted for Ron Paul in our primaries.

Second, I am a Navy veteran, and I worked on the flight deck of the USS Enterprise during 3 vietnam deployments in 1966, 67 and 68. I know about flight deck operations through extensive first-hand experience.

You ask the question, "Did [McCain] start the USS Forrestal fire?"

I'll answer: Absolutely, positively not!

The theory that a "wet start" triggered the Zuni missile is sound. But the notion that anybody deliberately wet starts his aircraft is preposterous. Most often a wet start results from turning the turbine over too slowly to start the engine. This can result from an error by the flight deck crewman who is operating the starter. Yes, it is a flight deck crewman who operates the starter on an A4. A4s (at least of that era) did not have an internal starter. The crewman manually inserted an air-driven starter into the side of the aircraft. Both the pilot and the starter crewman followed the signals given by the plane captain--who is an other flight deck crewman.

The starter turns when a member of the flight deck power crew makes the connection on the end of a remote control cable. That is when the aircraft engine is turned. It takes fifteen to twenty seconds to build up sufficient RPMs to start the engine. If the start is interrupted for any reason (and there are many why it can happen) the engine will spool down in a flooded condition. At that point, a wet start is almost inevitable when another attempt to start the engine is made.

It is highly likely that this is what happened on Forrestal.

It is impossible that McCain's jet started the fire. If you look at the video, you will see that the exhaust of his jet is pointed out over the side of the ship. There was no plane parked behind him. The missile that struck McCain's plane came from 90 degrees, off his starboard wing.

So please, stop this preposterous slander.

Now as to what he did after the fire started, aside from receiving severe burns, you make the absurd criticism that he went below decks while his shipmates were dying. Sickbay is below decks. That is where you go when you are injured. Pilots do not fight flight deck fires. There are crewman who have the special training and equipment who do that. It would be stupid for anyone not properly trained and equipped to hang around and be in the way.

Grow up. Keep your criticisms to fact. McCain's politics are far left of the Republican mainstream, and even further left of good sense. You don't need to try to beat him with lies. Defeat him with ideas!

John McCain, liberal that he is, deserves the respect of all of us--most especially those who weren't there when the Vietnam War was going on. I was there, and I saw pilots put their lives on the line every day, every time they climbed into their planes. If you haven't done that, then you can say nothing that will impress me.

NavyVet

NavyVet  posted on  2008-09-11   19:18:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Sodie Pop (#9)

I spent a lot of time in SE Asia, and never once did I run into an Jewish Communist.

Yes, Vietnam never had any russians helping them, nor chinese.

That is all a ruse to keep idiots like you fighting a bullshit war.

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-11   19:23:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: NavyVet (#11)

Keep your criticisms to fact.

Tough to do, but good advice.

buckeye  posted on  2008-09-11   19:25:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Ninpo, Sodie Pop (#12)

Yes, Vietnam never had any russians helping them, ...

I would not bet on that. It wouldn't change the folly of our involvement in Vietnam, in any case.

buckeye  posted on  2008-09-11   19:27:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: NavyVet (#11)

John McCain, liberal that he is, deserves the respect of all of us--most especially those who weren't there when the Vietnam War was going on. I was there, and I saw pilots put their lives on the line every day, every time they climbed into their planes. If you haven't done that, then you can say nothing that will impress me.

No one, NO ONE deserves any respect that fights in bullshit wars!

Military men are all dumb,stupid animals.

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-11   19:29:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: buckeye (#14)

I would not bet on that. It wouldn't change the folly of our involvement in Vietnam, in any case.

What are you talking about?

Vietnam was the theatre of the cold war. Russian advisors were there. As well as chinese troops/material.

It is amazing how little people actually know about wars...

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-11   19:30:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Ninpo (#12)

Your post says all that needs to be said about your knowledge and intelligence. Of course the Soviet Union and ChiComs we involved in the war. Where did those MiG jets come from? The AK-47s? The SAMs that brought down McCain's plane? I say again: Grow up.

NavyVet  posted on  2008-09-11   19:30:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: NavyVet (#17)

I see.

You cannot diferentiate from jewish/communist and jewish communist.

I guess that is why the USA lost the vietnam war. PS I don't want to grow up. Growing up means getting old and being ignorant. I prefer staying eternally young with wisdom.

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-11   19:35:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Ninpo (#15)

No one, NO ONE deserves any respect that fights in bullshit wars! Military men are all dumb,stupid animals.

I just wanted to repeat that, in case anybody missed this display of your intelligence. It needs no further comment.

NavyVet  posted on  2008-09-11   19:36:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: NavyVet (#19)

I just wanted to repeat that, in case anybody missed this display of your intelligence. It needs no further comment.

Yes, after all these years, "War is a Racket" means that you people saved us, from, um, what exactly?

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-11   19:38:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: NavyVet (#11)

welcome, NavyVet. thanks for providing us with this information and sharing your experience and opinion.

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-09-11   19:44:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Ninpo (#15)

Military men are all dumb,stupid animals.

who are you, Henry Kissinger?

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-09-11   19:46:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: christine (#22)

who are you, Henry Kissinger?

I channel him for new age groups.

Sometimes he comes out. I cannot help myself.

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-11   19:47:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Ninpo (#12)

Yes, Vietnam never had any russians helping them, nor chinese.

Wow. Just wow. The U.S. Navy Seals captured a caucasian Soviet "advisor" once during a mission to do just that. When he was brought onto base he was shot by an ARVN/VC soldier who then shot himself.

“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!”
-Schweizerische Schutzenseitunt (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941

X-15  posted on  2008-09-11   19:49:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Ninpo (#15)

No one, NO ONE deserves any respect that fights in bullshit wars!

what about those who had no choice because they were drafted, Ninpo?

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-09-11   19:49:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: christine (#25)

what about those who had no choice because they were drafted, Ninpo?

The smart people went to canada.

You always have another choice.

Lots of my family members have fought in the imperial USA's bullshit wars.

Some actually fought each other.(civil war).

War is a racket.

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-11   19:53:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: X-15 (#24)

Why did he shoot himself?

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-11   19:54:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Ninpo (#26)

War is a racket.

Right on brother.

buckeye  posted on  2008-09-11   19:55:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Ninpo (#26)

The smart people went to canada.

You always have another choice.

sure. that's a ridiculous assertion and generality. lots of young men had no choice and it had nothing to do with smarts either.

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-09-11   20:00:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Ninpo (#12)

Yes, Vietnam never had any russians helping them

Soviets Had Combat Role In Vietnam, Paper Shows; Advisers Helped Shoot Down U.S. Planes

Military officials here have acknowledged for the first time that a contingent of Soviet advisers in Vietnam took part in combat against U.S. forces there and helped shoot down American planes, according to a long account published today in the armed forces newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda.

One Soviet officer who fought alongside North Vietnamese troops is quoted in the article as saying he won two medals for helping shoot down 24 U.S. bombers-the Order of Lenin and the Red Banner.

An army major identified as A. Trombacheayev said that 25 to 30 of the Soviet Union's Vietnam veterans hold a reunion each April near Moscow's Bolshoi Theater, but that they experience little joy from their memories. "For all of them, Vietnam has the same meaning," he told the interviewer. "The horrible faces of Vietnamese children and women so awfully scarred by napalm, the bravery of the soldiers who vowed to die for their motherland."

The article is part of a series of reminiscences by Soviet veterans who served in Afghanistan, Vietnam, Egypt, Syria, Korea and elsewhere. Until recently, the Soviet press and public paid little attention to veterans of military actions after World War II. During the last months that Soviet troops were in Afghanistan, however, the press began a widespread campaign to lend more aid, as well as sympathy, to veterans of that war and other foreign engagements of the past 30 years.

Although the article is predictably laudatory of Hanoi's victory in Vietnam and written in a tone of heroic "internationalism," it does not sound a particularly aggressive tone toward the United States. In fact, Moscow has displayed a certain sympathy toward U.S. veterans of the Vietnam War and even allowed a group of them to come here several months ago to meet a group of Soviet veterans of the Afghan war.

Using excerpts from Soviet veterans' diaries, the Krasnaya Zvezda article described how in 1965 they helped set up antiaircraft units to defend against U.S. bombers.

One officer, Col. G. Lubinitsky, wrote that he and his men helped fight planes that were attacking Hanoi in two waves. "The division alongside us was the first to start firing, and they immediately scored hits. Two attempts and two hits," Lubinitsky's account said. "Our rockets hit their targets, too. Later we hit an unmanned spy plane."

One sergeant described the U.S. pilots as cocky and said they became vulnerable to ambushes set up by the North Vietnamese and Soviets. "We hit four planes with just three rockets," he said. "The Americans thought they could just do anything and flew alongside one another. They were so close that the shrapnel from one exploding plane caused another one to crash."

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-09-11   20:02:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: christine (#29)

sure. that's a ridiculous assertion and generality. lots of young men had no choice and it had nothing to do with smarts either.

Lots of men went and didn't fight, either.

Some went and smoked pot and did nothing. I feel that is what really caused the end of the war. Our men killing their officers.

You always have a choice. Killing your officers is better than killing your so called enemy.

You seem to have emotional energy tied up in this conversation.

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-11   20:03:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Jethro Tull (#30)

I forgot the [/sarcasm], brah.

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-11   20:03:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Ninpo (#15)

No one, NO ONE deserves any respect that fights in bullshit wars!

Military men are all dumb,stupid animals.

MOST people are not aware of the true nature of world affairs until they reach their 30's, whereas young men who volunteer for military service are in their teens. During Vietnam, many had no choice as they were drafted, and felt that they were doing their duty to their country, others simply didn't want to dishonor their family by deserting their country in time of need.

That the Vietnam war was not what it was advertised to be is a mute point as most people weren't aware of the facts concerning that back then, nor do many even understand what those facts are today.

Remember, there was no Internet back then so people were basically at the mercy of mass media.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-09-11   20:11:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Ninpo (#31)

Killing your officers is better than killing your so called enemy

You're a fucking nutjob.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2008-09-11   20:12:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Ninpo (#27)

To keep from being tortured by the ARVN into telling what he knew about VC- infiltration operations and who his contacts were. We wouldn't have tortured him, but we sure as hell wouldn't have stood in the way of letting his fellow soldiers do what needed to be done to make him talk.

“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!”
-Schweizerische Schutzenseitunt (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941

X-15  posted on  2008-09-11   23:46:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: FormerLurker (#33)

MOST people are not aware of the true nature of world affairs until they reach their 30's, whereas young men who volunteer for military service are in their teens. During Vietnam, many had no choice as they were drafted, and felt that they were doing their duty to their country, others simply didn't want to dishonor their family by deserting their country in time of need.

That the Vietnam war was not what it was advertised to be is a mute point as most people weren't aware of the facts concerning that back then, nor do many even understand what those facts are today.

Remember, there was no Internet back then so people were basically at the mercy of mass media.

Well said.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-09-11   23:48:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: X-15 (#35)

Wild.

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-15   13:41:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: FormerLurker (#33)

MOST people are not aware of the true nature of world affairs until they reach their 30's, whereas young men who volunteer for military service are in their teens. During Vietnam, many had no choice as they were drafted, and felt that they were doing their duty to their country, others simply didn't want to dishonor their family by deserting their country in time of need.

That the Vietnam war was not what it was advertised to be is a mute point as most people weren't aware of the facts concerning that back then, nor do many even understand what those facts are today.

Remember, there was no Internet back then so people were basically at the mercy of mass media.

So, according to that logic, personal integrity is found on the internet?

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-15   13:44:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: FormerLurker (#34)

You're a fucking nutjob.

Yup. Don't drop the 'po into a bullshit war zone if you want to live.

Ninpo  posted on  2008-09-15   13:45:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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