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Title: NorFed/LibertyDollar raided by Feds (unconfirmed)
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://libertydollar.org
Published: Nov 15, 2007
Author: Bernard von NotHaus
Post Date: 2007-11-15 12:05:06 by Pinguinite
Keywords: None
Views: 588
Comments: 14

This by email. Not yet posted on their web site.

--------

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.

I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled... if ever... it now all depends on our actions.

Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.

Please forward this important Alert... so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.

Please click _HERE_ to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.

Bernard von NotHaus

Monetary Architect

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#1. To: Pinguinite (#0)

AJ got the same mail and he's now running the story.

Join the Ron Paul Revolution

Lod  posted on  2007-11-15   12:07:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Pinguinite (#0)

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday.

Unbelievable.

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men." -- Samuel Adams (1722-1803)‡

ghostdogtxn  posted on  2007-11-15   12:10:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Pinguinite (#0)

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday.

Where will all that end up?

Register to vote for Ron Paul NOW.

wbales  posted on  2007-11-15   12:11:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Pinguinite (#0)

I wonder what these people expected to happen when they were competing against the only game in town.

I would bet 10 fiat dollars that it was probably the fact that there was a cache of gold, silver and platinum that could be seized for value. I would also wager that the assumed value of the goods taken will be replaced with regular dollars, and not the actual raw material wealth that was seized.

Hilarious.

Dying for old bastards, and their old money, isn't my idea of freedom.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2007-11-15   12:20:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#4)

Live and learn.

Remember...G-d saved more animals than people on the ark. www.siameserescue.org

who knows what evil  posted on  2007-11-15   12:34:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#4)

No, not hilarious.

Norfed has been running for many, many years and its only now that this has happened. Why now? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the dollar has entered a freefall as of a few months ago. Maybe it has something to do with Ron Paul's popularity and the fact that they just coincidentally obtained 2 tons of Ron Paul coins in.

If they were to replace the stolen property with fiat dollars at face value, it would be a legal admission that the face value of these gold & silver coins is equivelent to their real value, something they simultaneously claim is not true as justification for the raid.

I don't think that's likely to happen. We'll see what charges are leveled as justification for the raid. Or maybe they'll just be declared terrorists and leave it at that.

I have my own criticism for their minting dollar values onto their coins. I think it would be better to avoid that and allow a floating between their coins and the fiat dollar, maybe by minting on it the number of fine grains of silver. But who am I to criticize? 95% of what NotHaus has done I agree with, and he's done a lot more than almost all others.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-11-15   12:57:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Pinguinite (#6)

I would think that you would understand when I say Hilarious, I don't mean the actual event itself, but how laughable the charges must be to have the government seize all the assets of a company when those assets are minted gold, silver, and platinum. The only real reason to seize such a cache, is to procure it for use elsewhere.

I will in fact wager that the coins in question will in fact be replaced by fiat dollars for their face value, thus breaking the back of Norfed.

The timeliness of the Ron Paul Dollar though does indeed strike a chord. I think you're on to something there.

Dying for old bastards, and their old money, isn't my idea of freedom.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2007-11-15   14:24:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#7)

I will in fact wager that the coins in question will in fact be replaced by fiat dollars for their face value, thus breaking the back of Norfed.

Actually, in Norfed's case, it wouldn't since a one once silver round has a $20 face value. $20 frns, at least today, would easily cover one ounce of silver and 10 mint cost. Ditto on a $1000, one ounce gold coin.

I saw on their site they now have $1 copper coins.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-11-15   15:01:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Pinguinite (#6)

I have my own criticism for their minting dollar values onto their coins.

That's been one of my biggest problems with them too. Not so much because the stated value is considerably more than the current "value" of the metal itself, but rather because it creates a limiting factor in WHERE they are of stated value. Unless you live in a populous enough place where a reasonable sized "network" of associates and "merchants" which accept them are involved, they are of no higher value than any other gold or silver mintage. I don't live in such an area, so why should I spend $20 for a one ounce silver round when I can get an American Eagle for $17? (And even worse, when I could still get that Eagle for $12, the Liberty would have already been $20)

At any rate, I sure don't think that if they are replaced with "dollars" it will be at FACE value. IF they "replace them" at all in dollars I suspect it will be at MARKET value, and SPOT at that.

99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
Steven Wright

innieway  posted on  2007-11-15   15:08:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Pinguinite (#8)

I think you misunderstand me.

If a gold dollar is confiscated, and they cost what? 900 or so Reserve Notes,

They'd get a reserve dollar to replace it, and not 900.

Because after all, it would be a dollar for a dollar, penny for a penny, even though their values are completely divergent.

Dying for old bastards, and their old money, isn't my idea of freedom.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2007-11-15   15:08:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: innieway (#9)

why should I spend $20 for a one ounce silver round when I can get an American Eagle for $17? (And even worse, when I could still get that Eagle for $12, the Liberty would have already been $20)

Someone said that bad money drives out the good, which would mean that, yes, FRNs would constantly work more advantageously than LD's. When the LD's revaluated in Nov of 05, it really made my head spin with the implications, especially since you could pretty much know when they are coming according to NorFed's rules, and that Norfed would redeem their coins for FRN's if you'd prefer.

I can appreciate the attempt to have a dollar value so people could equate them to FRNs without bartering. Without that, integration into the economy is more difficlut. But I still think they should list the number of grains of fine silver as the face value of the silver coins, maybe in conjunction with a citation of the coinage act that declares it a dollar.

I've got a number of LD silvers, $10 demonination. Hopefully they'll not become collectors items.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-11-15   15:25:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#10)

If a gold dollar is confiscated, and they cost what? 900 or so Reserve Notes,

They'd get a reserve dollar to replace it, and not 900.

Because after all, it would be a dollar for a dollar, penny for a penny, even though their values are completely divergent.

The face value of all the LD coins exceed their material and minting cost. NorFed has never made a once ounce gold coin with a one dollar face value. So if the DOJ et al replace the stolen stash on face value of the coins, they will be essentially becoming another customer of NorFed and everything will be fine. If they replaced the metal based on spot value, then Norfed would only be out minting costs which would be bad in the case of 2 tons of Ron Paul coins, but survivable.

It would be very, very bad only if they replaced the coins in FRNS based on the face value of the Eagles which the coins could be minted into. But that's so far fetched they'd never do that.

Pinguinite.com EcuadorTreasures.ec

Pinguinite  posted on  2007-11-15   15:34:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Pinguinite (#12)

Ah... I stand corrected. For some reason I thought that their "Dollar" coins were slated as being the true value of a dollar or something like that.

Thanks for the correction, carry on.

Dying for old bastards, and their old money, isn't my idea of freedom.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2007-11-15   19:53:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Pinguinite (#0) (Edited)

(unconfirmed)

not anymore

Chris Brunner interviews LD co-founder

hammerdown  posted on  2007-11-16   1:04:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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