Freedom4um

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: U.S. WEAPONS POISON EUROPE
Source: American Free Press
URL Source: http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/weapons_poison_europe.html
Published: Mar 10, 2006
Author: Leuren Moret
Post Date: 2006-03-10 03:29:21 by ratcat
Keywords: WEAPONS, POISON, EUROPE
Views: 354
Comments: 55

A shocking new scientific study by British scientists Dr. Chris Busby and Saoirse Morgan asks: “Did the use of uranium weapons in Gulf War II result in the contamination of Europe?”

High levels of depleted uranium (DU) have been measured in the atmosphere in Britain, transported on air currents from the Middle East and Central Asia. Scientists cited the U.S. bombing of Tora Bora, Afghanistan in 2001 and the “Shock and Awe” bombing during Gulf War II in Iraq in 2003 as one of the main reasons.

In the 1950s the British government had established an air monitoring facility at the Atomic Weapons Establishment (AWE) in Aldermaston to measure radioactive emissions from British nuclear power plants and atomic weapons facilities.

Ironically, AWE was taken over three years ago by Halliburton, which at first refused to release key data as required by law to Busby.

An international expert on low-level radiation, Busby serves as an official advisor on several British government committees. He recently co-authored an independent report on low-level radiation with 45 scientists with the European Committee on Radiation Risk (ECRR) for the European Parliament.

Busby was eventually able to get Aldermaston’s air monitoring data from Halliburton by filing a freedom of information request using a new British law that became effective Jan. 1, 2005. Critical data from 2003 was missing, however, so he had to obtain the information from the Defence Procurement Agency.

Aldermaston is one of many nuclear facilities throughout Europe that regularly monitor atmospheric radiation levels transported by sand, dust storms and air currents from radiation sources in North Africa, the Middle East and Central Asia.

After the “Shock and Awe” campaign in Iraq in 2003, very fine particles of depleted uranium were captured along with larger sand and dust particles in filters in Britain. These particles traveled in seven to nine days from Iraqi battlefields as far away as 2,400 miles.

The radiation measured in the atmosphere quadrupled within a few weeks after the beginning of the 2003 campaign, and at one of the five monitoring locations, the levels twice required an official alert to the British Environment Agency.

In addition, according to Busby, the Aldermaston air monitoring data provided a continuous record of depleted uranium levels in Britain from other recent wars.

Extensive video news footage of the 2003 Iraq war, including Fallujah in 2004, provided evidence that the United States has illegally used depleted uranium munitions on civilian populations. These military actions are in direct violation of not only international conventions but also violate U.S. military law because the United States is a signatory to The Hague and Geneva conventions and the 1925 Geneva Gas Protocol.

Depleted uranium weaponry meets the definition of a weapon of mass destruction (WMD) in two out of three categories under U.S. Code Title 50, Chapter 40 Sec. 2302. After action mandates have also been violated such as U.S. Army Regulation AR 700-48 and TB 9-1300-278, which requires treatment of radiation poisoning for all casualties, including enemy soldiers and civilians.

In the mainstream press, British officials have attempted to counter the study by blaming the elevated uranium levels on “local sources.” Anonymous statements by government scientists used by the media thus far, however, have been contradicted by evidence disclosed in the report.

Naturally occurring uranium in the crust of the Earth is only 2.4 parts per million and could not become concentrated to the high levels measured in Britain. As far as nuclear power plants are concerned, the lowest levels of uranium measured at monitoring stations around Aldermaston were actually taken at the facility, which designs and tests nuclear weapons—meaning this could not possibly be a source.

Atomic weapons facilities would be more likely to produce plutonium contamination, which was not reported as a contaminant.

This wasn’t the first time a noted scientist has discussed global pollution from the use of DU.

Dr. Keith Baverstock, an expert on radiation, exposed a World Health Organization (WHO) cover-up on depleted uranium. Baverstock leaked an official WHO report that he had written for the organization but was never published. He warned in the report about the environmental contamination from tiny DU particles formed from U.S. munitions.

In addition, Dr. Katsuma Yagasaki, a Japanese physicist at the University of the Ryukyus in Okinawa, estimated that the atomic equivalent of at least 400,000 Nagasaki bombs has been released into the global atmosphere since 1991 from the use of DU munitions. He said it is mixed in the atmosphere in one year.

DU PROFITS

As if Busby’s report is not bad enough, a new book by a leading scientist notes who is making billions from nightmare armaments.

Dr. Jay Gould revealed in his book The Enemy Within that the British royal family privately owns investments in uranium holdings worth over $6 billion through Rio Tinto Mines in Australia. The mining company was formed for the British royal family in the late 1950s by Roland Walter “Tiny” Rowland, who was known as the queen’s banker and the master financial manipulator behind billionaire Robert Maxwell’s fortune.*

The Rothschilds are also profiting enormously from their control of the price and supply of uranium globally.

The ubiquitous Halliburton just recently finished construction of a 1,000-mile railway from the mining area to a port on the north coast of Australia to transport the ore.

The queen’s favorite American buccaneers, Dick Cheney and the Bush family, are tied to her through uranium mining and the shared use of DU munitions in the Middle East, Central Asia and Kosovo.

The role that such diverse groups and individuals as the Carlyle Group, George H.W. Bush, former Carlyle CEO Frank Carlucci, Los Alamos and Livermore labs, and U.S. and international pension fund investments have played in proliferating depleted uranium weapons is not well known. God save the queen from her complicity in turning planet Earth into a death star.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: ratcat (#0)

Extensive video news footage of the 2003 Iraq war, including Fallujah in 2004, provided evidence that the United States has illegally used depleted uranium munitions on civilian populations.

In addition, Dr. Katsuma Yagasaki, a Japanese physicist at the University of the Ryukyus in Okinawa, estimated that the atomic equivalent of at least 400,000 Nagasaki bombs has been released into the global atmosphere since 1991 from the use of DU munitions. He said it is mixed in the atmosphere in one year.

How can these people live with themselves?

No wonder the RW dismisses any mention of the environment by scientists as myth and junk science.. they dare not have any of their constituency take heed of scientists warnings.. And how much evidence has to mount up before the world puts a stop to this.. how long are they going to stand by and let them put all of us in danger?

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-10   5:47:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Zipporah, IndieTx (#1)

In addition, Dr. Katsuma Yagasaki, a Japanese physicist at the University of the Ryukyus in Okinawa, estimated that the atomic equivalent of at least 400,000 Nagasaki bombs has been released into the global atmosphere since 1991 from the use of DU munitions. He said it is mixed in the atmosphere in one year

With all due respect for "OPINIONS" I can't believe some of the silly quotes I read here on F4Um.

Put 3% H2O2 up your nose, then drink H2O2 to cure everything from infertility to syphilis... now this....lets unravel this ridiculous rant from an obvious muddle-head

First...uranium detected in Europe is most likely A) non-existant in accordance with the bull in the rest of this article or B) from buddy Klinton/MadMaddie/Rubin/ Clark all leftist darlings who DID admittedly, in public and on film, state they used spent uranium in the bombs and missiles rained on Yugoslavia, 30,000 of them, your ONLY staunch ally in Europe for a century. These peoploe pulled your fathers out of burning planes and ships and sent them back to you safe and sound while the muslims and Nazis tortured and killed your fathers.

So look first to Klintoonia and the Terror Bombing of Serbia and its province Kosovo to pay off the muslims by killing the Christians for them and stealing Christian land for the latest Al Quaeda narcotics and white slave base.

NATO aircraft rained more than 30,000 DU bombs on Kosovo during the 11-week air campaign… About 10 tons of the debris were scattered across Kosovo. Perhaps 300 tons of DU weapons were used in the first Gulf war.

2) 400,000 Nagasaki bombs ROTFLMFAO...can anybody do third grade arithmetic? I know the schools are dumbed down and it shows in this kind of silly thing any adult would laugh at....

so let's go through it s l o w l y

First, DU is an alpha emitter (virtually harmless) and a Beta emitter ( harmful if ingested or breathed) but DU in no way produces the secondary thousands of tons of emitters alpha, beta and gamma, nor the high energy particles, that is produced by a fusion device. Do I want to eat DU ? No. But it is used as ballast every day in aircraft and boats.

Now the 400,000 Nagasakis...

Nagasaki was 20,000 tons of TNT equivalent. 20,000 X 2000 POUNDS is 40,000,000 pounds of TNT. A bunker buster contains about 650 pounds of TNT.

So for the article to come close to being believable, 60,000 X 400,000 Bunker Busters would have to be dropped...

or 24,000,000,000 24 BILLION BUNKER BUSTERS...

Can I stop now?

This is silly and does not deserve anything but laughter from adults....

How is it that posters feel comfortable in putting up stuff like this unchallenged?

It is actually harmful in addition to being silly to give stuff like this a bye ....

Untrue is always harmful....silly untrue and , well, is just plain silly.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/bunker-buster3.htm

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   6:52:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: ratcat, IndieTx (#0)

"http://americanfreepress.net"

American Free Press, 1433 Pennsylvania Avenue SE, Washington, D.C. 20003

ROTFLMAO

NeoCon Shell Game....

man they get your attention and divert your knowledge and thus completely destroy your effectiveness with silliness like this that makes anyone repeating it look just plain stupid.

"Stupid is as stupid does," - Forrest Gump

My guess the response will be "kill the messenger" on F4UM....and I will get in a lot of trouble for this post

Tune in Tokyo Rose tommorrow, same time, same station

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   7:02:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Brer' (#2)

Put 3% H2O2 up your nose, then drink H2O2 to cure everything from infertility to syphilis... now this....lets unravel this ridiculous rant from an obvious muddle-head

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe we should add a disclaimer?? Whatya think??

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-10   7:03:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Brer' (#3)

Tune in Tokyo Rose tommorrow, same time, same station

I no want to see American service man die. Me f**k you long time GI,




Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

IndieTX  posted on  2006-03-10   7:30:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Zipporah (#4)

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe we should add a disclaimer?? Whatya think??

LOL what I am seeing here is adults who can laugh....

as long as we all laugh at ourselves and everybody else too well...and I LOVE IT !!

Everything's Just Fine On Cannery Row ....

lol simpleton me and my favorite short novel ( and the first time I fell in love with Debra Winger (-; )

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   8:02:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: IndieTX (#5)

I no want to see American service man die. Me f**k you long time GI,

Can't see for thge tears oin my eyes.... ROTFL

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   8:04:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Brer' (#2)

Now the 400,000 Nagasakis...

Nagasaki was 20,000 tons of TNT equivalent. 20,000 X 2000 POUNDS is 40,000,000 pounds of TNT. A bunker buster contains about 650 pounds of TNT.

So for the article to come close to being believable, 60,000 X 400,000 Bunker Busters would have to be dropped...

or 24,000,000,000 24 BILLION BUNKER BUSTERS...

Can I stop now?

Yes, you can stop with the deliberate red herring.

Nobody is talking about tons of TNT except for you.

Whay about the gist of the article? Have anything to say about that?

...  posted on  2006-03-10   8:12:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Brer' (#3)

in other words you do support the destruction of american troops and others through depleted uranium poison.

Red Jones  posted on  2006-03-10   8:36:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Red Jones (#9)

and when did you stop beating your wife ?

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   11:09:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: IndieTX, Brer', Red Jones, Zipporah (#5)

Tune in Tokyo Rose tommorrow, same time, same station

I no want to see American service man die. Me f**k you long time GI,

lol!

Ironically, AWE was taken over three years ago by Halliburton, which at first refused to release key data as required by law to Busby.

So what's this about then? The ubiquitous Halliburton and the neverending coverups.

Why are 300,000 Gulf War I Veterans on disability?

Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction. ~George W. Bush

robin  posted on  2006-03-10   11:12:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: robin (#11)

Why are 300,000 Gulf War I Veterans on disability?

Care to share provenance on this claim?

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   11:18:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Brer' (#12)

Sure, it's been published for a few years now.

I'll look for the links while you talk about the quote regarding Halliburton.

Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction. ~George W. Bush

robin  posted on  2006-03-10   11:32:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: All, Brer' (#13)

2003, CNN:

Gulf War veterans suing companies for chemical exports

About 161,000 Gulf War veterans are receiving disability payments from the U.S. government.

Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction. ~George W. Bush

robin  posted on  2006-03-10   11:33:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: All, Brer' (#14)

From an article "Report Links Exposures To Gulf War Syndrome" by National Gulf War Resource Center, 2004:

Figures from the VA show 182,000 disability claims granted, 27,270 denied and 26,507 still pending, almost 14 years after the end of the war.

Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction. ~George W. Bush

robin  posted on  2006-03-10   11:37:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Brer' (#6)

LOL what I am seeing here is adults who can laugh....

as long as we all laugh at ourselves and everybody else too well...and I LOVE IT !!

Everything's Just Fine On Cannery Row ....

lol simpleton me and my favorite short novel ( and the first time I fell in love with Debra Winger (-; )

Hey we do like to have fun in the midst of our misery :P Just think how many laughs we can have at the Gulag!! :P

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-10   11:38:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: All, Brer' (#15)

From WND in 2003:

2 of 5 Gulf War vets on disability
209,000 make VA claims,
161,000 getting payments

Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction. ~George W. Bush

robin  posted on  2006-03-10   11:38:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: All, Brer' (#17)

2005 from National Gulf War Resource Center, "Ailing veterans blame their MS on Gulf War">

Of the 700,000 U.S. troops who served there in 1991, a disproportionate number experienced serious neurological disorders. More than 65 percent have sought health care for service-related ailments. Nearly 200,000 are receiving disability compensation -- twice the rate as vets from World War II, Korea and Vietnam.

Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction. ~George W. Bush

robin  posted on  2006-03-10   11:43:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: robin (#17)

Not to mention the ones who have already died.

It's pretty common knowledge that half of GWI vets are dead or disabled, unless, of course, you happen to be a brain-dead, government-loving 'bot.

Oh, it doesn't matter. It's always either too cold or too hot, wherever there's a war on. The Enemy Below (1957)

Esso  posted on  2006-03-10   11:45:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: All, Brer' (#18)

(from 2002)Ten Reasons Why Many Gulf War Veterans Oppose Re-Invading Iraq

10. The Department of Veterans Affairs will not be able to care for additional casualties because VA can't even take care of current VA patients. Most veterans now wait six months to see a VA doctor, and most veterans wait more than six months to receive a decision on a VA disability claim. Many of those waiting in line are Gulf War veterans, many with unusual illnesses. According to VA, of the nearly 700,000 veterans who served in Desert Shield and Desert Storm, more than 300,000 have sought VA healthcare, and more than 200,000 have filed VA disability claims. Two weeks ago, President Bush slashed $275 million from the healthcare budget of the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Although the Iraqi government is a corrupt dictatorship that must eventually be removed, current proposals to remove the government by deploying hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops are deeply flawed. A premature attack against Iraq, especially when the public opposes it, would be a horrible mistake. Since 1990, more than 400 U.S. soldiers have died in the Gulf War theater of operations. Untold hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, both soldiers and civilians, also died. A second invasion of Iraq for one man is not worth one more life; let's use common sense and avert a second Gulf War.

The author is a Gulf War combat veteran.

Support the troops? Go visit the closest VA. Bring 'em home. The Middle-East is none of our business. The Saudis (15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis) are not a democracy, UAE is not a democracy, the Middle-East doesn't like democracies, and IMO, neither does George W. Bush and his cronies.

Free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction. ~George W. Bush

robin  posted on  2006-03-10   11:48:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Zipporah (#16)

Hey we do like to have fun in the midst of our misery :P Just think how many laughs we can have at the Gulag!! :P

I have no doubt Carnivore and Mossad has us all in their sights and on the internment list.

( or is that the interment list?)

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   11:50:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Brer' (#2)

Now the 400,000 Nagasakis...

Nagasaki was 20,000 tons of TNT equivalent. 20,000 X 2000 POUNDS is 40,000,000 pounds of TNT. A bunker buster contains about 650 pounds of TNT.

So for the article to come close to being believable, 60,000 X 400,000 Bunker Busters would have to be dropped...

or 24,000,000,000 24 BILLION BUNKER BUSTERS...

Can I stop now?

You haven't answered me here.

You ... deliberately ... told ... a ... bald ... faced ... lie.

You ... did ... it ... knowingly.

You lied to the people on this forum in an attempt to push your wingnut, moonbat views over on them.

As you know, Dr. Katsuma Yagasaki, not talking about tons of TNT or explosive yield in the quote, he was talking about equivalent amounts of dangerous uranium released into the atmosphere.

You -- deliberately -- spun this to make it sound like they were talking about explosive yield.

If you are correct in your view, why do you find it necessary to tell a deliberate, knowing, bald face lie to support yourself?

I think I know why you haven't anwered me here.

You can't.

...  posted on  2006-03-10   11:51:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: robin (#18)

Think this might possibly have anything to do with them receiving 6 letters a week every week, " YOU can have a free check for life. Sign here. We'll fix it up."

What a clever way to milk the taxpayers and make every effort extremely expensive with nthe trial lawyers getting 40-50% of the entire take.

Wonderful primer on how to destroy the West from within and get even MORE stinking rich so you can buy all the best beachfront property around the Pacific Rim, as is being done, just like Miami and Boca Raton 40 years ago, so you can, pick the carcass, move on to the next feast and wail, " I been diasporized again. BWAAaaaaaahhhhh.!"

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   11:55:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Brer' (#23)

Think this might possibly have anything to do with them receiving 6 letters a week every week, " YOU can have a free check for life. Sign here. We'll fix it up."

What a clever way to milk the taxpayers and make every effort extremely expensive with nthe trial lawyers getting 40-50% of the entire take.

Wonderful primer on how to destroy the West from within and get even MORE stinking rich so you can buy all the best beachfront property around the Pacific Rim, as is being done, just like Miami and Boca Raton 40 years ago, so you can, pick the carcass, move on to the next feast and wail, " I been diasporized again. BWAAaaaaaahhhhh.!"

Wingnut tactic Number 4: When confronted with facts that you cannot refute, attempt to change the subject.

...  posted on  2006-03-10   11:57:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: robin (#20)

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/du.htm - tons of DU/Gulf war vets infomation.

Lod  posted on  2006-03-10   11:59:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: ... (#22)

Some of us work asshole....whom pays you? http://moveon.org ? Kerry? Hitlery?

yield of depleted uranium in any quantity is not by a billionth part as radioactive in energetics or quantity of nucleids as is generated by by a primary fission explosion

PI rating, authorized user, 900 physics highest level in that arena, brother one of the original researchers in nuclear fusion/Bennets Super Pinch technology.

Now kiss my ass and go BOZO you leftwing Badeye BOT ...no difference in the two of you...both shills for a destructive agenda and a mind as ignorant as your limited rants.

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   12:01:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Brer' (#21)

( or is that the interment list?)

ROFLMAO!!!!

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-10   12:02:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: robin, brer' (#18)

Ive not been following this thread other than the one liners LOL.. have you included this?.. esp the one from Dr. Rokke:

http://www.snowshoefilms.com/depleteduranium.html

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-10   12:18:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Zipporah (#28)

I think depleted uranium as a real and present danger needs objective exploration. I doubt the results will be as deadly as many think. However, I am open on that issue at present. Depleted uranium is used commercially even in the keels of pleasure boats.

Want a wail....don't drink, cook or eat from any Made in China ceramics. They routinely use lead pigments because they are the brightest and best for color and they are cheap. Eat , drink and be merry and die slowly but surely from myriad cancers and wasting diseases from lead poisoning which is far more serious than the awful sounding depleted uranium, which BTW is even in the soil in a non-descript county like Pittsylvania and from Mississippi to Connecticut in all the Triassic basin. Look up the Triassic basin map and Google Marline.

The dangers that are REAL are usually kept quiet while we rant and rave over things that do not amount to a hill of beans. Wonder why this is so? Sounds like a deal among globalists to me. Rant about politics and a military 99% don't know a damned thing about....but hush up the fact that half the junk in your cupboard is poisoning you and your guests and children.

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   12:31:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Brer' (#26)

yield of depleted uranium in any quantity is not by a billionth part as radioactive in energetics or quantity of nucleids as is generated by by a primary fission explosion

You didn't say that in your post above. You talked about chemical yield vs the Hiroshima yield.

But you know that.

It's also not what the paragraph you referenced in the article said. That spoke of net release of Uranium.

But you know that too.

Now you are introducing a second red herring, the paragraph I have quoted above, in an attempt to save face.

In addition, you are employing both wingnut tactic 3 and 4, i.e., personal attack and attempt to change the subject.

Here is Dr. Katsuma Yagasaki's quote:

In addition, Dr. Katsuma Yagasaki, a Japanese physicist at the University of the Ryukyus in Okinawa, estimated that the atomic equivalent of at least 400,000 Nagasaki bombs has been released into the global atmosphere since 1991 from the use of DU munitions. He said it is mixed in the atmosphere in one year.

Here is how you tried to spin it:

Now the 400,000 Nagasakis...

Nagasaki was 20,000 tons of TNT equivalent. 20,000 X 2000 POUNDS is 40,000,000 pounds of TNT. A bunker buster contains about 650 pounds of TNT.

So for the article to come close to being believable, 60,000 X 400,000 Bunker Busters would have to be dropped...

or 24,000,000,000 24 BILLION BUNKER BUSTERS

Now you tell me what the hell 24 billion bunker busters has to do with Dr. Katsuma Yagasaki's statement.

I can tell you. It has nothing to do with it. You, a deliberate liar, were twisting the facts in an attempt to push your agenda.

...  posted on  2006-03-10   12:41:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: ..., Brer' (#22)

I went into this in detail here...

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=4389&Disp=470#C470

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=10100&Disp=2#C2

"People who make you believe absurdities will make you commit atrocities..."

Axenolith  posted on  2006-03-10   12:54:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Axenolith (#31)

went into this in detail here...

My point was that Dr. Katsuma Yagasaki's was not dealing with the explosive yield of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs.

Dr. Katsuma Yagasaki was talking about the amount of toxic uranium products that would have been released by 400,000 Nagasaki bombs.

I ojected to Brer spinning it by saying something to the effect that billions of bunker busters would be needed to equal the explosive yield of 400,000 nagasaki bombs.

The number of chemical bombs needed to equal the explosive yield of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs has nothing to do with what Yagasaki said. Brer knows this. He is attempting to obfuscate the issue in the same way that he tried to obfuscate the issue in his response to me.

I don't know if Dr. Yagasaki's assertion holds up or not, but that isn't the issue here.

The issue is that Brer constructed a strawman from Dr. Yagasaki's statement and then attacked the strawman -- instead of presenting evidence that contradicted Dr. Yagasaki's actual assertion.

...  posted on  2006-03-10   13:18:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Axenolith, .., (#31)

Thanks. I have the resources but not the time to usually post that amount of detail. The yield figures correlate with nucleids created in a blast...supply the coefficient...that are not present in EDU.

Good post BTW.

brer'

PS who is this this ... I swear it sounds like ferret on LP

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   13:55:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: ... (#24)

You are becoming annoying...not in your brilliance but in your badeye(grin) type attempts to control conversation, asides and direct all flow the way you want it to go.

I guess I will simply ignore your control freak anxieties as you don't know shit from shinola but arte an adept disrupter and control freak...

God help your poor wife, girlfriend, boyfriend or children...you must be hell to live around because you are a real fascist here.

You ... are ignored.

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   14:04:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: ... (#32)

Every single statement and analogy contradicted that rabid clown and you too.

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   14:05:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Brer' (#34)

So is it stil your position that 24 billion bunker busters are required to put out the same amount of uranium biproducts as 400,000 Nagasaki bombs?

That is what you implied in your original post. What you are talking about above is a different subject.

...  posted on  2006-03-10   14:08:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Brer' (#35)

Every single statement and analogy contradicted that rabid clown and you too.

I know you can't itemize this or go into any sort of detail.

It's bullshit to cover that fact that you shot your mouth off and got caught.

These sorts of blankets statements are the best you can do.

That is why you tried to dodge my post until I came back and gaffed you a second time.

Even then you didn't present a rational argument to support yourself. Just a wingnut personal attack.

...  posted on  2006-03-10   14:11:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Axenolith, Zipporah (#31)

went into this in detail here...

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=4389&Disp=470#C470

http://freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=10100&Disp=2#C2

The pundit's premise was flawed because he tried to get readers to believe U238 was the only nucleid to be compared in a fission explosion..... absolutely dishonest by design but a typical leftist-marxist tactic and it fooled the masses and gave them something to rant about...that is one reason I feel safe equating yield with harmful fallout.

Brer'  posted on  2006-03-10   14:11:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Brer' (#35)

/chuckle.

...  posted on  2006-03-10   14:12:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Brer' (#38)

The pundit's premise was flawed because he tried to get readers to believe U238 was the only nucleid to be compared in a fission explosion..... absolutely dishonest by design but a typical leftist-marxist tactic and it fooled the masses and gave them something to rant about...that is one reason I feel safe equating yield with harmful fallout.

But that's not what you said.

You are still LYING.

You said that it took 24 billion bunker busters to equal the explosive yield of 400,000 Nagasaki bombs. It had nothing to do with putting DU into the air.

It was a complete strawman argument and you know it. Go read your silly post. You mischaracterized the argument and then attacked the strawman. Wingnut tactic number 5 to be precise. Rush uses it every day.

You're just digging the hole deeper.

...  posted on  2006-03-10   14:16:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Brer' (#38)

The pundit's premise was flawed because he tried to get readers to believe U238 was the only nucleid to be compared in a fission explosion..... absolutely dishonest by design but a typical leftist-marxist tactic and it fooled the masses and gave them something to rant about...that is one reason I feel safe equating yield with harmful fallout.

May I ask you this.. have you ever read Dr. Doug Rokke's story while he served in the military?

Dr Rokke discusses the effects of depleted uranium

PLEASE WAIT FOR VIDEO TO LOAD: PRESS PLAY TO VIEW

Doug Rokke sits on the edge of his chair in a beige, could-be-anywhere hotel room in Carlton. He stares at you with an almost embarrassing intensity and is close to tears.

"It's lonely," he says slowly. "It's very lonely. I made a decision. I was given a job. I did my job. I learned something. I gave them an answer they didn't want. I became persona non grata. And the better parts of my life ended."

What remains is an obsession with proving he is right about the dangers of depleted uranium (DU) weapons. A waste produced from the uranium enrichment process, depleted uranium has become increasingly contentious since American and British militaries first used it in the 1991 Gulf War and, since then, in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Rokke, a health physicist who became the Pentagon's most senior DU expert during the first Gulf War, became convinced it had contaminated the battlefield and could be a factor in Gulf War Syndrome, the mysterious mix of illnesses that have afflicted returning soldiers. Rokke acknowledges DU's brilliance as a weapon - because it is an extremely dense metal that sharpens and burns as it hits its target, it is used on the ends of tank shells and missiles to penetrate steel and concrete much more easily than conventional weapons. But he also believes that he and the research team became contaminated. "Everybody is sick," he says. "We've all got rashes, respiratory and kidney problems. It's there; there are no two ways about it."

Rokke is a military veteran. He joined the US Air Force in 1967 and bombed Vietnam targets "before I could shave". Years later, with a master of science and expertise in environmental health, he was ordered to the Gulf to help protect American soldiers if chemical and biological weapons were used and, later, to oversee DU clean-up. He became convinced DU was causing illnesses such as cancer, and that the Pentagon was downplaying its dangers. When he went public with his views, he was sacked

He is still campaigning, and this week urged the Australian Government, which doesn't allow weapons to be made with DU, to test returning troops for contamination and to campaign for it to be banned globally.

DU is only slightly radioactive - far less than uranium itself - but it is also chemically toxic, and scientists are divided about whether the combination poses a serious or remote health risk to soldiers and civilians who come in contact with it or inhale its dust. Little rigorous research has been done, and Rokke's theories remain unproven.

The official American position is that it is safe. In March, US Army Colonel James Naughton dismissed Iraqi claims that DU weapons caused cancers and leukaemia in children who played around bombed-out tanks and buildings during the first Gulf War. He claimed the real reason Iraq complained about DU weapons was because they were so effective. "Why do they (the then Iraqi government) want it to go away?" Naughton asked. "They want it to go away because we kicked the crap out of them. There is no doubt DU gave us a huge advantage over their tanks."

In the first Gulf War, most American deaths were from friendly-fire DU weapons. Rokke was ordered to decontaminate shot-up vehicles and tanks and to investigate health effects on troops. Dressed in protective gear and masks, he and his team crawled over tanks and other vehicles, sending some back to the US. Those considered too dangerous to move were buried in a giant hole in the ground.

In the mid-1990s, he was recalled from an academic job to head the Depleted Uranium Project in Nevada, which test-fired weapons into targets to analyse the health risks and to work out how to clean up safely.

Rokke, now 54, is convinced that he and other members of his team in Iraq were contaminated and that the tests he undertook showed that significant amounts of the DU vaporised on impact, making it extremely dangerous when inhaled. He pulls up his trouser leg to reveal the red rash he says appeared within hours of his contact with DU. He holds up his hand and moves fingers clumsily to show that his fine motor skills have gone. He has respiratory problems and cataracts and has medical reports showing that the amount of uranium in his urine is way above acceptable limits.

He has become a campaigner, not just for better clean-up and treatment, but for the weapons to be banned. "After everything I've seen, everything I've done, it became very clear to me that you just can't take radioactive wastes from one nation and just throw it into another nation. It's wrong. It's simply wrong."

Depleted uranium is so cheap and effective - 350 tonnes was used in weapons in the first Gulf War and possibly 500 tonnes in this year's Iraq conflict - that Rokke says the US is reluctant to do proper studies of veterans or Iraqi civilians. "It's the arrogance. Once they acknowledge that there are actual health effects of depleted uranium munitions, then they can't use them any more; the house of cards falls apart."

Rokke, brought to Melbourne by the Victorian Peace Network, has the single-mindedness of a whistleblower. He says he has lost friends, had his house ransacked, had his taxes audited and been publicly vilified for his outspokenness.

Concerns about DU have found some political acceptance - the British Government has announced it will test returning troops for DU contamination. But neither it, nor Washington, plan decontamination in Iraq. In the Australian Senate this week, Democrat Lynn Allison urged the Government to campaign internationally against DU in the same way it does against cluster bombs. Defence Minister Robert Hill said Australian troops in Iraq were not in areas where DU was used, and "there is no conclusive evidence to indicate that ammunition containing depleted uranium poses a significant adverse health risk to (Australian) personnel operating in Iraq".

The scientific evidence is cloudy because there has been so little research. It is broadly accepted that DU does little harm outside the body. But it may cause serious damage if it is inhaled. That means that people near where it is used could be contaminated, and it is possible it could seep into water tables.

Professor Brian Spratt, chairman of the British Royal Society's DU working group, this week told Radio National he welcomed the testing of British troops, because it meant the government "was at least taking the issue seriously, which is a very different attitude to the American military, who seem not to be interested in having any tests for their soldiers".

Spratt acknowledged that the issue was deeply political: the military have reasons for downplaying DU's health effects, and the anti-nuclear lobby have an interest in inflating them.

Rokke has faith he is doing what is right, and he clings to the belief that he is still doing the job the Pentagon ordered him to do. "I didn't ask for this job," he says. "I was given the job, and I'm going to finish the job."

Zipporah  posted on  2006-03-10   14:16:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



      .
      .
      .

Comments (42 - 55) not displayed.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest