4um: NIST engineer, John Gross, denies the existance of Molten Steel.

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Title: NIST engineer, John Gross, denies the existance of Molten Steel.
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7180303712325092501&hl=en
Published: Feb 13, 2007
Author: Project for the New American Citizen
Post Date: 2007-02-13 11:34:11 by honway
Ping List: *9-11* Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: None
Views: 3854
Comments: 70

Must see video.
Link to video below
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7180303712325092501&hl=en

John Gross, one of the lead engineers of the NIST report is quesitoned about the existance of molten steel at the WTC building, the ... all » collapse of Building 7, and also explains how the NIST report did not do any analysis of the collapse of all three buidlings. John Gross was asked to come speak at the University of Texas at Austin by the Phil. M. Ferguson fund ( Link to there website, http://www.utexas.edu/research/fsel/people/index.html) UT student organization, A Project for the New American CItizen was there to ask and film his response to the questions. please get in contact with this department at UT and tell them you want a public debate of these issues with a Project for the New American Citizen. We need to put as much pressure on these people as we can. Our website is http://PNACitizens.org Subscribe to *9-11*
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#15. To: Minerva (#14)
TLBSHOW wants to get on the site and he is just as kooky as you are.
Think about that while you fart around here.
You CAN be replaced.

LMFAO!
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
BTP Holdings posted on 2007-02-14 12:44:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: BeAChooser (#12) (Edited)
First, there’s no proof here other than the caption of when and where this was taken.

That is a lot of material you pasted, so let's take it in segments.
"My name is Frank Silecchia. I am one of the many WTC Ground Zero workers who was devastated by what I saw and encountered after the Twin Towers collasped."
Do you believe Frank Silecchia worked at Ground Zero and then posted a photo from Ground Zero on his website showing an excavator removing material from the debris?
Or are you supporting the suggestion from this "9/11 Myths" website that Frank Silecchia is participating in an elaborate hoax by posting a fake photograph on his former website >http://wtcgodshouse.com?
Is Frank Silecchia participating in a conspiracy to fool people into believing there is an actual photograph of the eyewitness reports of molten metal at Ground Zero?

honway posted on 2007-02-14 12:57:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: BeAChooser (#12)
Office fires can be severe, then. What temperatures are achievable? The same page details four different fire types, and shows their temperature range over time.

NIST Engineer John Gross has already put this bogus claim to bed.

John Gross: "Steel melts at around 2,600 degrees fahrenheit, um, I think it's probably pretty difficult to get that kind of temperatures in a, um, in a fire."
____________________________________________________________

The unidentified questioner stated as fact that "eyewitnesses there found huge pools of molten steel beneath the towers". Now it is pools. And again, that is not established fact. No eyewitness has actually been quoted by a reliable source saying there were "pools" of any metal anywhere at the WTC site.
Can you please clarify your position.
On the one hand it appears your 911 myth website and you question the reports of molten metal and then you go on to claim that the fire at Ground Zero could create molten metal.Do you see why your site and you have so little credibility?
Was there molten metal at Ground Zero?

honway posted on 2007-02-14 13:08:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: BeAChooser, *9-11* (#12) (Edited)
911 Myths .com
We recently discovered another pointer to the use of “molten steel”, too. A message on the LibertyPost forum referred to a now defunct site called http://WTCGodsHouse.com, where a WTC construction worker published a potentially relevant photo ( http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=30926 ). Could this be true? The site is dead, but there’s a copy in the WayBack machine, and the front page has this guys credentials:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
To all:
Interesting. There is a well funded,professionally managed and maintained website created by an impressive team using a proxy name to register their domain. The purpose of the site is to counter all those questioning the government's version of events concerning 9/11. There is no pretense of objectivity. It is one hundred percent agenda driven propaganda presented in a very intelligent and professional manner. If you did not look closely,you might mistake this team for individuals interested in the truth. The main question I have is, where is the money coming from for this site?
I was surprised to find out this well funded professional team is using their time to debunk a thread I posted on Libertypost long ago.
New York visit reveals extent of WTC disaster[molten metal still red hot weeks after the event]

honway posted on 2007-02-14 13:27:46 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: honway, ALL (#16)
Do you believe Frank Silecchia worked at Ground Zero and then posted a photo from Ground Zero on his website showing an excavator removing material from the debris?

This is Frank Silecchia.
http://www.biblenetworknews.com/northamerica/091102_usa2.html
http://www.angelwings-ggtg.com/crossesgroundzero.htm
Can you actually prove, with a statement from him, that he took that picture?
Was he using a still camera or video? Because some sources say that's an image from a video.
Do you believe he believes that bombs brought down the WTC towers?
Why do so many websites that show that picture say it shows "chunks of hot metal being removed" rather than "molten metal"?
In any case, honway, I'm perfectly happy letting post #12 stand as a response to most anything else you write on this thread.

BeAChooser posted on 2007-02-14 15:40:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: beachooser, Critter, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#19)
Why is anyone feeding the BAC troll?

SKYDRIFTER posted on 2007-02-14 15:43:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: SKYDRIFTER (#20) (Edited)
He is supposed to be giving us his Ron Brown and WMD kook rants. He's not doing a very good job however. I rank his entertainment value at zero.
We will probably replace him with TLBSHOW or just bring back buckeroo.

Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
Minerva posted on 2007-02-14 15:46:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: honway, ALL (#18)
Interesting. There is a well funded,professionally managed and maintained website created by an impressive team using a proxy name to register their domain. The purpose of the site is to counter all those questioning the government's version of events concerning 9/11. There is no pretense of objectivity. It is one hundred percent agenda driven propaganda presented in a very intelligent and professional manner. If you did not look closely,you might mistake this team for individuals interested in the truth. The main question I have is, where is the money coming from for this site?

ROTFLOL! And where is all the money coming from for the 100,000 conspiracy websites on the web, honway? Where is money coming from that supports slick but dishonest videos like Loose Change and 911 Mysteries?
Do you think your side is the only one that has ordinary Americans committed to supporting it?
And isn't it curious, that now your only defense seems to be to attack the messenger with an unsubstantiated accusation rather than the contents. Don't your facts speak for themselves? The facts on http://911myths.com/html/wtc_molten_steel.html certainly do.

BeAChooser posted on 2007-02-14 15:47:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: SKYDRIFTER (#20)
How about byeltsin? Would he make a good site kook or is he too inarticulate?

Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
Minerva posted on 2007-02-14 15:48:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: BeAChooser, *9-11* (#19) (Edited)
I am not playing your games here BAC. I think you may have convinced some you had something of substance to bring to a legitimate debate. Now we have all discovered all you had was an internet address to a shill site registered anonymously that provided you and your kind with your talking points and your links at http://911myths.com/index.html.
Answer the question below or my exchange of ideas with you has come to an end. I need to know you are capable of an original thought or opinion for our debate to continue.Forget about what is written on http://911myths.com for one minute.You were aware of Frank Silecchia and the photo before that site existed.
Do you believe Frank Silecchia worked at Ground Zero and then posted a photo from Ground Zero on his website showing an excavator removing material from the debris?

honway posted on 2007-02-14 16:47:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: SKYDRIFTER (#20) (Edited)
Why is anyone feeding the BAC troll?

It appears I may be done. It depends on if he is capable of an original thought instead of pasting talking points from www.911myths.gov

honway posted on 2007-02-14 16:50:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: honway (#25)
http://thememoryhole.com/911/fdny_dispatches.htm
All Available NY Fire Dept Dispatch Tapes From 9/11
Released After a Three-and-a-Half-Year Court Fight
Complete Contents of All 23 CDs
"You can not save the Constitution by destroying it."
Itisa1mosttoolate posted on 2007-02-14 17:15:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: honway, Christine, Brian S, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#25)
Sometimes, he's compelling to respond to, I admit. I wish I could resist, but when he appears to be swaying someone's good judgment, I lose control & my fingertips go to work on the keyboard.
"BeOcho was no man..."

SKYDRIFTER posted on 2007-02-14 17:24:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: Itisa1mosttoolate (#26)
http://thememoryhole.com/911/fdny_dispatches.htm
All Available NY Fire Dept Dispatch Tapes From 9/11
Released After a Three-and-a-Half-Year Court Fight

Thanks for that link.

honway posted on 2007-02-14 17:55:12 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: Itisa1mosttoolate, Christine, Brian S, Honway, Robin, Aristeides, Red Jones, Diana, Kamala, All (#26)
I'll agree that the molten steel is bizarre; but there is no denying that it was there. It's tough to imagine anyone denying something so obvious.

SKYDRIFTER posted on 2007-02-14 17:57:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#30. To: honway (#25)
Why is anyone feeding the BAC troll?
It appears I may be done.

thank god. ;)

christine posted on 2007-02-14 18:05:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#31. To: honway (#25)
It depends on if he is capable of an original thought

I don't believe I've ever seen one come from him.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
BTP Holdings posted on 2007-02-14 18:13:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#32. To: christine, BTP Holdings (#30)
I am glad the website that hands out the talking points he pastes was identified.
Reading through the information there at 911myths.gov, it does not appear he has ever posted a single original thought.

honway posted on 2007-02-14 18:24:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#33. To: honway (#18)
Interesting. There is a well funded,professionally managed and maintained website created by an impressive team using a proxy name to register their domain. The purpose of the site is to counter all those questioning the government's version of events concerning 9/11. There is no pretense of objectivity. It is one hundred percent agenda driven propaganda presented in a very intelligent and professional manner. If you did not look closely,you might mistake this team for individuals interested in the truth. The main question I have is, where is the money coming from for this site?
I was surprised to find out this well funded professional team is using their time to debunk a thread I posted on Libertypost long ago.
New York visit reveals extent of WTC disaster[molten metal still red hot weeks after the event]

Interesting, indeed. BAC shows up 2 years later to lead the debunking parade on that post. Utterly freaking amazing, that is until you connect the dots. We've suspected for quite some time that BAC was a bought and paid for shill.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
BTP Holdings posted on 2007-02-14 18:25:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#34. To: honway (#0)
BTW, I studied the mannerisms of Mr. Gross in the video. He shows every sign of being another who has sold out the rest of us for his daily bread.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
BTP Holdings posted on 2007-02-14 18:29:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#35. To: christine, all (#30)
Why is anyone feeding the BAC troll?
It appears I may be done.
thank god. ;)

amen bump
Dr.Ron Paul for President
Lod posted on 2007-02-14 18:33:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#36. To: honway, Esso (#32)
911myths.gov

almost always his source from what i've seen.

christine posted on 2007-02-14 18:43:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#37. To: AGAviator, Eoghan, honway, Yertle the Turtle (#4)
Molten steel is a product of a thermite reaction - although there are other ways to melt steel than just using thermite.
However if there was no molten steel, there could not have been any thermite reaction.

How long does steel stay at temepratures where it is melting with no other heat source other than the quick burning thermite? Steel needs a lot of energy to stay in a molten state for any amount of time. Thermite charges also only melt the steel around which they are wraped as charges - presumebly not a wide enough area to melt that much steel as being claimed and they perform the melting in quick flash bang so no steady heat to keep steel molten.
"The desire to rule is the mother of heresies." -- St. John Chrysostom
Destro posted on 2007-02-14 18:43:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: honway, ALL (#24)
Answer the question below or my exchange of ideas with you has come to an end.

I frankly don't care what you do, honway. My purpose here isn't to debate you or *exchange* ideas with you. I'm here solely to show folks that there is an alternative, more rational view than what has been posted up till now at FD4UM. If you don't want to challenge the specific facts and sources I mention in my posts, don't. That is entirely up to you. I'm confident that anyone who stumbles upon this forum will draw the right conclusion unless they are blindly committed to having bombs in the WTC and no Flight 77.

BeAChooser posted on 2007-02-14 21:22:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: BTP Holdings, ALL (#34)
BTW, I studied the mannerisms of Mr. Gross in the video. He shows every sign of being another who has sold out the rest of us for his daily bread.

Actually, his mannerisms are that of someone utterly fed up with conspiracy nonsense.

BeAChooser posted on 2007-02-14 21:24:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: BeAChooser (#39)
Actually, his mannerisms are that of someone utterly fed up with conspiracy nonsense.

So how did Clinton bring Ron Brown back to life? And why did he allow Saddam to use him to move the WMD to Syria? And why doesn't Bush tell us about the vast Al Quaeda camp that was in Iraq just before the war? Seems that would save his Presidency.

Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
Minerva posted on 2007-02-14 21:29:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#41. To: BeAChooser (#39)
Let me guess. The MSM is conspiring with the _____ and the ______ to keep it secret.
Do I have it?

Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
Minerva posted on 2007-02-14 21:30:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#42. To: christine, ALL (#36)
almost always his source from what i've seen.

Now, christine, that's not true at all.
Would you like me to prove it by reposting all the sources I've cited so far at FD4UM?
I could make each a seperate thread if you like.
I'll be happy to add all the other sources I've cited over many years.
And very few of them end in .gov
But it is curious ...
You also don't want to address the facts and sources compiled at that .gov site on the molten steel allegation.
Could it be that none of you can actually come up with sourced material to dispute what it says?

BeAChooser posted on 2007-02-14 21:31:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#43. To: BeAChooser (#39)
conspiracy nonsense

it is a little bit silly BAC. (I was the one who first used the term BAC).
the national media reported prominently about the hot spots. The hot spots it turned out when they cleared the rubble were the spots where the molten steel was. Many people witnessed the molten steel. Chris Bollyn quoted the 2 owners of contracting firms hired to take the rubble out that there were many pools of molten steel at the bottom of the rubble pile. Firemen & others reported that their boots melted while walking on debris 20-30 feet above the molten steel. You remember your friend 'war' on LP who said that he talked to workers on the site who witnessed the molten steel.
So all this 'conspiracy' talk is a bit silly.
They had an 'expert' on a Discovery channel documentary who said that the pools of molten steel were created by burning jet fuel. That is as ridiculous an idea as I have ever heard.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Red Jones posted on 2007-02-14 21:31:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#44. To: BeAChooser (#42)
Pssst.
Tell her that it's a hell of a lot better than the sources for your other kooky conspiracy theories ..... NewsMax and WND.

Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
Minerva posted on 2007-02-14 21:33:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#45. To: BeAChooser (#42)
Give us your sources for your Ron Brown conspiracy theories.
They're a hoot!

Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
Minerva posted on 2007-02-14 21:34:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#46. To: BeAChooser (#39)
I must admit BAC - I have never witnessed that you ever lose an argument. When argument occurs you just keep spewing your view in enormous detail even, you challenge every point, you constantly spew information. and you never quit. The other person always quits first and therefore you win the argument - every time.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Red Jones posted on 2007-02-14 21:34:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#47. To: Red Jones (#46)
When you talk to him, start the conversation by going:
Kooks!!
ROTFLOL!!
He'll see you as a kindred spirit then.

Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
Minerva posted on 2007-02-14 21:43:17 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#48. To: BeAChooser (#42)
why do you have minerva on bozo? she is asking you legitimate questions.
"And this is the end of my brilliant career on the 4um..." -- ponchy 12/20/2006
Morgana le Fay posted on 2007-02-14 21:47:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#49. To: BeAChooser (#42)
real kooks don't bozo people. Ponchy and buckeroo never had anyone on bozo.
this makes you look like a really a poor excuse for an internet kook.
"And this is the end of my brilliant career on the 4um..." -- ponchy 12/20/2006
Morgana le Fay posted on 2007-02-14 21:49:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#50. To: Morgana le Fay (#49)
this makes you look like a really a poor excuse for an internet kook.

I'd vote for replacing him with TLBSHOW.

Bunch of internet bums ... grand jury --- opium den ! ~ byeltsin
Minerva posted on 2007-02-14 21:51:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#51. To: Minerva (#50)
I'd vote for replacing him with TLBSHOW.

people would object to kicking around TLBSHOW. he's odd but harmless. the person has to have three qualities - be a nut, be abrasive and be funny. bac is lacking the last one and tlbshow is lacking the last two.
"And this is the end of my brilliant career on the 4um..." -- ponchy 12/20/2006
Morgana le Fay posted on 2007-02-14 21:53:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#52. To: Destro, Eoghan, honway, Yertle the Turtle (#37) (Edited)
How long does steel stay at temepratures where it is melting with no other heat source other than the quick burning thermite?

It's possible it got very hot inside the WTC - in certain sections - because of a "chimney fire" effect, which triggered thermite-type reactions from the steel in the building and the aluminum/magnesium alloy in the aircraft, which kept smouldering even after the structures collapsed.
The fires were high above ground level, and since warm air rises, they would have drawn air into them from below and expelled their smoke above. Structure fires like this can turn the structure into a blast furnace, and reach temperatures well over a thousand degrees. There are also events called "flashovers" when closed rooms fill with partially burnt smoke and when everything gets superheated past ignition temperature, the room literally explodes into flame everywhere at once.
So there is a lot about the fires that has not been addressed in great detail, but somehow the temperature got hot enough to melt steel.
Bozo List: (1)[D]angle, (2) Kamala

AGAviator posted on 2007-02-14 23:30:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#53. To: AGAviator (#52)
because of a "chimney fire" effect, which triggered thermite-type reactions from the steel in the building and the aluminum/magnesium alloy in the aircraft, which kept smouldering even after the structures collapsed.

lol
"First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then you win." --Mahatma K. Gandhi
angle posted on 2007-02-14 23:34:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#54. To: angle (#53)
lol

lol

christine posted on 2007-02-14 23:41:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#55. To: AGAviator (#52)
William Rodriquez talks about explosions at the WTC on 911
have you seen 911 Mysteries: Demolitions? it includes testimony from firefighters that day and also a lengthy testimony by William Rodriquez, a maintenance worker at the WTC and the last person to leave the WTC alive. it's the best 911 video made, imo.

christine posted on 2007-02-14 23:54:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

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