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Title: Cheney Shotgun Ballistics Don't Match Up
Source: prisonplanet.com
URL Source: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2006/150206matchup.htm
Published: Feb 15, 2006
Author: Alex Jones
Post Date: 2006-02-15 22:35:37 by Coral Snake
Keywords: Ballistics, Shotgun, Cheney
Views: 2789
Comments: 53

Cheney Shotgun Ballistics Don't Match Up

Alex Jones/Prison http://Planet.com | February 15 2006

What we had deducted almost immediately after Cheney machine began rolling on this shooting is now finally starting to filter out into the rest of the media: It is not only unlikely that Whittington was injured in the way he reportedly was if Cheney had shot him from 30 yards it is impossible.

After reviewing the Texas Department of Parks and Wildlife report on the shooting, there is no doubt that this is a cover-up.

The pattern of the birdshot depicted in the diagram on the report indicates about a foot spread from cheek to chest.

As we previously reported, birdshot is not like a traditional bullet. Birdshot is composed of hundreds of tiny lead BB's with very low mass which are designed to spread out and slow down very quickly. The idea is basically to shoot out a bunch of tiny pellets to catch a bird that may be taking wing at the instant it recognizes the shot has been fired. Many points ensure greater likelyhood of hitting the target.

These pellets are incredibly tiny and the further they get away from the gun, the slower and less forceful they become. So at a distance of about 90 feet (or 30 yards as reported by the White House) the pellets would have hit Whittington with the force equivilent to a gentle shove and have left maybe some tiny surface marks on any exposed skin.

The only way to account for the pattern indicated on the TDPW report is if Cheney was about 10 feet away from Whittington when he shot him.

Click to Enlarge

Reports and press releases that followed the event explained that some of the pellets had become lodged in his heart tissue. The only way this is possible, the only way that the tiny pellets designed to spread over distance could have maintained the force necessary to penetrate Whittington's hunting vest, clothing, skin, muscle, bone and finally into his rock-hard heart would have been if they came from a much shorter distance than the White House is claiming.

The initial reports have Whittington making jokes and feeling fine after the shooting, but doctors would have been able to diagnose with a simple x-ray that there was a chunk of metal in his heart tissue immediately upon receiving him. Now that he has taken a turn for the worse, they are in scramble-mode to cover-up what really happened in case he dies.

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#10. To: nolu_chan (#6)

Basically, bird shot (7 1/2, for example) can only be guaranteed to be lethal to a range of about 5 yards, beyond 10 yards, or so, the wounds may look severe, but be relatively superficial due to the lack of penetration of individual pellets.

...and the close proximity of the pellets or cluster pattern, indicates a closer range too, from what I've read.

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-16   10:21:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: robin (#10)

If the penetration and the dispersal pattern indicate a distance of, say, 10 feet, is that so significantly different from what was reported to us (and thus presumably to the authorities) that we can talk about obstruction of justice and material lying to the authorities? Is it criminal in itself? And does it constitute strong evidence that the shooting itself was criminal in some way?

aristeides  posted on  2006-02-16   10:39:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Coral Snake, Zipporah, all (#0)

I was listening to Sydney Blumenthal, former senior Clinton aide, this morning and he gave some additional background on how the Armstrongs basically gave Cheney and Rove their careers - they hired or funded both of them. Blumenthal made one point though that I had not really considered before and which is quite striking when you think about it. Cheney is a pretty sick fellow with his heart problems. He's probably taking medications, and he's frequently wearing two different shoes because his feet become largers sizes because of the circulatory problems, and he is now at least sometimes walking with a cane.

Can we reasonably expect this man to have the agility required to hear a sound at twilight, spin around 180 degrees and unknowningly shoot Whittington in the face and chest with these pellets with such force it penetrated his winter clothing? I tried doing an experiment this morning. I'm overweight and pretty klutzy and I tried pretending I was holding a shotgun and spinning around 180 degrees and I just don't know how plausible the "accident" scenario would be. Cheney would have had to had his finger right on the trigger so he just shot as soon as he turned around because he would surely have seen WHittington standing right there. Blumenthal seemed to be implying that he didn't buy the accident story - and ya know what? Neither do I. But who's gonna investigate this?

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-16   10:43:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: aristeides (#11)

If the penetration and the dispersal pattern indicate a distance of, say, 10 feet, is that so significantly different from what was reported to us (and thus presumably to the authorities) that we can talk about obstruction of justice and material lying to the authorities? Is it criminal in itself? And does it constitute strong evidence that the shooting itself was criminal in some way?

The local sheriff's "investigation" was amazingly quick, and appeared to be nothing more than taking statements from eyewitnesses.

The ballistic evidence and credibility of the eyewitnesses' statements is only being checked and analyzed at blogs and websites like this one.

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-16   10:52:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: mehitable (#12)

From Salon

story image

AP Photo/Paul Iverson

A gate blocks the main entrance to the Armstrong Ranch in Texas, where Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot fellow hunter Harry Whittington on Feb. 11, 2006.

Shoot first, avoid questions later

The White House's secretive response to Cheney's misfire cannot be understood apart from the society of Texas royalty.

By Sidney Blumenthal

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-16   10:58:32 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: mehitable (#12)

If the official story is wrong, a proper forensic investigation (of things like the trajectory of the pellets) would almost certainly make that clear.

aristeides  posted on  2006-02-16   10:59:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Coral Snake (#0)

Just the time delay on the report is "obstruction of justice."

Here's the catch - when did the hospital report the shooting? (Or, did they?)

Was the hospital in the same county?

How did they get an ambulance, without a 9-11 call, identifying the problem to a wide range of police authorities?

Why didn't the State authorities get into the scene?

There's a lot wrong in this picture - including making false statements.

BUT - will anyone care?

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2006-02-16   10:59:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: aristeides, all (#15)

proper forensic investigation

That's the problem. Who in Texas is going to conduct such a thing for the Vice President of the United States, Richard Cheney?

This event has proven two things: that Dick Cheney actually has been running the country (yeah, WE know that, but I think the way this was handled clearly demonstrates it), and that this administration can literally get away with shooting a 78 year old man in the face and imperiling his life. If he dies, they'll get away with that too.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-16   11:04:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: SKYDRIFTER (#16)

Maybe they'll care if they see a pattern of arrogance that willfully ignores the Constitution. Like this Executive Order that Cheney's claims gives him the right to declassify info mentioned on a thread today. And the "Shoot First" mentality that got us in the mess called the Iraq War.

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-16   11:04:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: robin, lodwick, Arator, ALL (#18)

Alex Jones is going to do a 28 gauge shotgun experiment today.

"It's an Inside Job"

christine  posted on  2006-02-16   11:08:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: christine, mehitable, aristeides, MUDDOG, Dakmar, alpowolf, BTP Holdings, Itisa1mosttoolate, Peetie Wheatstraw, Kamala (#19)

Alex Jones is going to do a 28 gauge shotgun experiment today.

Should be fun ping!

Thanks christine!

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-16   11:14:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: aristeides (#15)

There are so many holes in this story. I think this is Cheney's swan song.

Do you believe he was hunting with his mistress? Do you believe Lynne Cheney cancelled at the last minute?

Fred Mertz  posted on  2006-02-16   11:15:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: christine, all (#19)

I think there are a number of things to be considered in this case:

the time of day (odd time to go on a canned hunt - sounds like they just got liquored up and had the sudden urge to kill something)

the make up of the hunting party (less important but given the hypocrisy of the Bush people, Mrs. Willeford's presence is "interesting")

the amount/type of liquor consumed (as Mrs. Armstrong and even Cheney admits adult beverages were in evidence at some point)

What kinds of medications is Cheney taking that might be affected by liquor and what is his general condition? Should he be hunting at all?

Where everyone was at the time of the incident, especially for giving witness testimony (has anyone interviewed Mrs. Willeford for example? and Mrs. Armstrong apparently didn't see what happened from the car as she would not have misinterpreted the need for the ambulance if she had)

What kind of shotgun was this and could it inflict the kinds of wounds at the range we've been told?

Is Dick Cheney physically capable of accidentally turning so fast that he could shoot Mr W. 180 degrees BEHIND him without seeing him first? As a physically clumsy person I tried simulating this and I don't think I could have missed some guy standing behind me - I couldn't turn that fast and I'm not sure Lightenin' Dick can either.

There are tons of questions here. Who in authority will investigate these? We need a Columbo.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-16   11:16:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Fred Mertz (#21)

I'm readier to believe that Cheney uses these hunting trips for secret discussions immune from bugs and eavesdropping than that he uses them for trysts.

aristeides  posted on  2006-02-16   11:20:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: mehitable (#17)

Who in Texas is going to conduct such a thing for the Vice President of the United States, Richard Cheney?

I don't know. If Cheney is going down anyway, what better way to make your career?

aristeides  posted on  2006-02-16   11:22:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: robin, christine, Zipporah, robin, Zoroaster, BTP Holdings, Arator, Brian S, A K A Stone, Steppenwolf, Bub, mugwort, bluegrass, Bill D Berger, FormerLurker, Uncle Bill, Dakmar, Flintlock, Neil McIver, tom007, aristeides, Burkeman1, Diana, (#18)

The jury is still out, but to get a pellet through clothing into a persons heart is a lot closer than 90 feet, in my book.

If you just go to the grouping of the bird-shot, how do you hit someone, who is not quite clearly in your vision. He saw a small bird, but didn't see the person???

For ANY shotgun, that's a small grouping, suggesting close range.

It stinks - as usual.

Calling Gorner and Grissom!


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2006-02-16   11:22:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: aristeides (#24)

That would still take a heap o' guts and I don't know if anyone is like that in Texas. Texas and Florida seem to be the two most corrupt Republi-bot states in the US. I would be really surprised if anyone down there was willing to take him on. There's nothing more dangerous than a wounded animal and Cheney's no doubt baring his fangs.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-16   11:24:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: SKYDRIFTER (#25)

I just don't see how he could have missed Whittington - just as you say. He hit him dead on. It's not like Harry got the tail end of a pellet or two - he got the full load square on. This is either incredible recklessness (negligence at the least) or he deliberately shot him for some reason. I can't see it any other way. Even when I tried simulating this just by wheeling around (and like Cheney I'm not in great condition so it's not like either of us turns around so quickly you can't see someone standing 30 yards in back of you). It's just not plausible.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-16   11:27:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: SKYDRIFTER (#25)

I also just don't see how that man could sustain such injuries from birdshot fired at 30 yards. That's just too far away. At most he might feel a bit of a sting if he even got hit at all, but nothing that would penetrate HIS CLOTHING.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-16   11:29:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: mehitable.christine.everyone here (#27)

I will be going to the range to conduct my own little test today using a superposed Browning Citori, 26" barrels, 2 3/4" chambers, and using the most loaded-up 7 1/2 shotshells that I can find in 28 gauge. Several manufacturers have recently introduced a magnum chamber for this gauge, but I've no idea if this was what the veep was using, or not.

Shots will be made at ten, twenty, and thirty yards at a full-size silhouette target to see the shot dispersal, but this will tell us nothing about the penetrating power of the shot.

Lod  posted on  2006-02-16   11:43:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: mehitable (#26)

Texas and Florida seem to be the two most corrupt Republi-bot states in the US.

you got that right!

"It's an Inside Job"

christine  posted on  2006-02-16   11:50:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: lodwick (#29)

EXCELLENT. Will be very interested in what you determine. It just doesn't seem possible to me, even as a non-hunting person, that those injuries could have been caused by birdshot at that distance in the given scenario.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-16   11:54:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: SKYDRIFTER (#25)

who are Gorner and Grissom?

"It's an Inside Job"

christine  posted on  2006-02-16   11:54:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: lodwick (#29)

I will be going to the range to conduct my own little test today using a superposed Browning Citori, 26" barrels, 2 3/4" chambers, and using the most loaded-up 7 1/2 shotshells that I can find in 28 gauge. Several manufacturers have recently introduced a magnum chamber for this gauge, but I've no idea if this was what the veep was using, or not.

Shots will be made at ten, twenty, and thirty yards at a full-size silhouette target to see the shot dispersal, but this will tell us nothing about the penetrating power of the shot.

Have fun! I think you should repeat with one beer, then two, ...

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-16   12:00:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: robin (#33)

Funny! ;-)

I think that I'll delay the pops until a more appropriate hour.

Lod  posted on  2006-02-16   12:03:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: robin, lodwick (#33)

Yeah, and make sure you have a hot blonde and cold gun....

cars, guns, and ho's....it's the gangsta life for Cheney.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-16   12:03:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: mehitable.christine.everyone here (#35)

Crapolla.

Our indoor range doesn't allow shot to be fired: they told me that it really screws up the pulleys, etc that move the targets from the shooter's station to whatever distance you wish to blast.

Luckily, I took another piece and had a good time practicing with it.

On the way home, I heard Alex Jones' outstanding report of his experiment this morning. Sounds like big dick's story is indeed full of holes.

What else would be new with this regime?

Lod  posted on  2006-02-16   13:47:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: lodwick (#36)

What would we do without Alex Jones? He's a national treasure. I'm surprised they've let him live so long.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-16   13:48:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: mehitable (#37)

He's a national treasure. I'm surprised they've let him live so long.

Amen to both.

Lod  posted on  2006-02-16   13:51:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: christine (#32)

TV crime scene investogators. CSI & Law & Order - Criminal Intent.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2006-02-17   2:51:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: SKYDRIFTER, lodwick, duckhunter, ALL, Alex's Jones Experiment Video Proof Cheney's Story is a Lie (#39)

Cl ick here to watch. It's 10 minutes.

christine  posted on  2006-02-17   10:37:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: SKYDRIFTER (#39)

good show, I agree, they could solve this one

"War is a way of shattering to pieces...materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses... too intelligent." ~George Orwell

robin  posted on  2006-02-17   10:41:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: lodwick (#36)

What else would be new with this regime?

It's not unreasonable to assume that anything put forth by the government is a lie.

Failure to do so is incredibly naive.

There's a kind of freedom in being completely screwed... because you know things can't get any worse. The Freshman (1990)

Esso  posted on  2006-02-17   10:50:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: SKYDRIFTER, all (#25)

Ya know, when I mentioned shooting skeet and how a 28 gauge with the same load would smash a clay target to smithereens at 30 yards, I wasn't taking into account a leather vest and other clothing worn by the victim... NO WAY would it penetrate at that distance... It breaks the clay target and would penetrate flesh, YES, but no, it couldn't possibly penetrate the leather vest to go that deeply into his flesh. At the time that I was buying the DISTANCE part of it, the victim was reported to have SURFACE wounds and hadn't had the heart attack... The more we learn, the stinkier the official report gets... Earlier, all reports were saying SURFACE INJURIES... that could have been at 30 yards... THE TRUTH of the injuries negates that possibility just as the newest reports are saying...

HOWEVER, don't forget, the folks who "matter" to the admin will remember only the INITIAL reports and everything that comes later will be "conspiracy" and "smear jobs"... read a RW bbs and that's all they have to say about the NEW reports... I'm beginning to think that it's POSSIBLE that Cheney wasn't all together fully in control of his faculties... WHO wouldn't go to the hospital with his pal? WHO would sit down to dinner and telephone to make sure he was 'all right'...????? I let that slip only because as the VP, the press would swarm on his presence, but maybe it was more than that?? Time will tell.

I don't know about you, but the present STATE OF THE UNION scares the crap outa me...

siagiah  posted on  2006-02-17   11:11:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: siagiah, ALL (#43)

The Texas authorities have already closed the case. Nothing is going to happen as a result of this. Cheney could murder a man on the steps of the Capitol at 3 in the afternoon in front of several tour buses and NOTHING would be done. We have a dictatorship now and no law contains these men.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-17   11:13:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: mehitable (#44)

surprise, surprise. not.

christine  posted on  2006-02-17   11:16:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: siagiah (#43)

Cheney could have killed the guy in obvious malice; and nothing would be said.

This one will be torn to shreds, you know. This will be challenged by all sorts of legitimate experts.

Imagine a 12-inch grouping at 30 yards, with that kind of penetration power! I'd like to see the choke design.


SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2006-02-17   14:46:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: SKYDRIFTER, all (#46)

Yeah, but if the stupid bastard doesn't even object to being shot by Cheney, there's not much you can do. Next time I'd advise Cheney to use a grenade.

mehitable  posted on  2006-02-17   15:05:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: SKYDRIFTER (#46)

Imagine a 12-inch grouping at 30 yards, with that kind of penetration power! I'd like to see the choke design.

I'd like to see the SHOTGUN...

These claims would be almost believable with a twelve gauge- full choke trap barrel- using a double OO shotload- but NOT using 7 1/2 shot- 28 gauge bird gun with the more open choke that would certainly have been used. That gun & load is used for CLOSE RANGE QUAIL and Pheasant hunting... My husband uses a 410 to hunt pheasants... takes their heads off clean and leaves the meat unpeppered but then, he's GOOD ENOUGH to do that.

I've been without power for a few days due to severe windstorms taking down trees and poles so I'm not up to snuff with the latest news reports BUT I thought I'd heard that the victim gave a press conference? 'Zat true?

I don't know about you, but the present STATE OF THE UNION scares the crap outa me...

siagiah  posted on  2006-02-19   14:06:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: All (#48)

btw, I am still willing to believe that it was an accidental shooting... out of sheer carelessness and stupidity... perhaps influenced by a cocktail or three beforehand... but I'm not ready to believe it was a DELIBERATE shooting without sufficient evidence to support it. Cheney is a bastard and I fully believe that but even so, there is no evidence that it's anything but a cluster f**k accident that Cheney should answer for, not attempted murder... The idiot victim isn't pointing fingers and certainly, if he was attacked, he'd be wise to say so NOW while he was on center stage than later when "natural causes" might silence his opportunity.

I don't know about you, but the present STATE OF THE UNION scares the crap outa me...

siagiah  posted on  2006-02-19   14:10:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: siagiah (#48)

Yeah, I think he came out with a statement that said that he and his family were truly sorry for all that trouble and inconvenience that he had put the vice president through. It was just plain carelessness on his part, he added remosefully.

This event has been traumatic for Mr. Cheney, the Austin lawyer continued, his eyes brimming with tears. "Everyone prays that we will put this unfortunate incident behind us and we hope that Cheney can get back to carrying on the business of this nation." The VP is recuperating at his compound in Wyoming.

gargantua  posted on  2006-02-19   14:35:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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