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Title: Editorials, Including Those at Conservative Papers, Rip Bush's Hurricane Response
Source: Editor and Publisher
URL Source: http://editorandpublisher.printthis ... ndp%2Fnews%2Farticle_display.j
Published: Sep 2, 2005
Author: E&P Staff
Post Date: 2005-09-02 21:35:31 by crack monkey
Keywords: Conservative, Editorials,, Including
Views: 1516
Comments: 71

Editorials, Including Those at Conservative Papers, Rip Bush's Hurricane Response

By E&P Staff

Published: September 02, 2005 12:30 PM ET

NEW YORKEditorials from around the country on Friday -- including at the Bush-friendly Dallas Morning News and The Washington Times -- have, by and large, offered harsh criticism of the official and military response to the disaster in the Gulf Coast. Here's a sampling.

Dallas Morning News

As a federal official in a neatly pressed suit talked to reporters in Washington about "little bumps along the road" in emergency efforts, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin issued an urgent SOS. The situation near the convention center was chaotic; not enough buses were available to evacuate thousands of survivors, and the streets were littered with the dead.

Moments later, President Bush took center stage and talked at length about the intricacies of energy policy and plans to keep prices stable. Meanwhile, doctors at hospitals called the Associated Press asking to get their urgent message out: We need to be evacuated, we're taking sniper fire, and nobody is in charge.

Who is in charge?

Losing New Orleans to a natural disaster is one thing, but losing her to hopeless gunmen and a shameful lack of response is unfathomable. How is it that the U.S. military can conquer a foreign country in a matter of days, but can't stop terrorists controlling the streets of America or even drop a case of water to desperate and dying Americans?

President Bush, please see what's happening. The American people want to believe the government is doing everything it can do -- not to rebuild or to stabilize gas prices -- just to restore the most basic order. So far, they are hearing about Herculean efforts, but they aren't seeing them.

***

The Washington Times

Troops are finally moving into New Orleans in realistic numbers, and it's past time. What took the government so long? The thin veneer separating civilization and chaos, which we earlier worried might collapse in the absence of swift action, has collapsed.

We expected to see, many hours ago, the president we saw standing atop the ruin of the World Trade Center, rallying a dazed country to action. We're pleased he finally caught a ride home from his vacation, but he risks losing the one trait his critics have never dented: His ability to lead, and be seen leading.

He returns to the scene of the horror today, and that's all to the good. His presence will rally broken spirits. But he must crack heads, if bureaucratic heads need cracking, to get the food, water and medicine to the people crying for help in New Orleans and on the Mississippi coast. The list of things he has promised is a good list, but there is no time to dally, whether by land, sea or air. We should have delivered them yesterday. Americans are dying.

***

Philadelphia Inquirer (and other Knight Ridder papers)

"I hope people don't point -- play politics during this period." That was President Bush's response yesterday to criticism of the U.S. government's inexplicably inadequate relief efforts following Hurricane Katrina.

Sorry, Mr. President, legitimate questions are being asked about the lack of rescue personnel, equipment, food, supplies, transportation, you name it, four days after the storm. It's not "playing politics" to ask why. It's not "playing politics" to ask questions about what Americans watched in horror on TV yesterday: elderly people literally dying on the street outside the New Orleans convention center because they were sick and no one came to their aid.

The rest of America can't fathom why a country with our resources can't be at least as effective in this emergency as it was when past disasters struck Third World nations. Someone needs to explain why well-known emergency aid lessons aren't being applied here.

This hurricane is no one's fault; the devastation would be hard to handle no matter who was in charge. But human deeds can mitigate a disaster, or make it worse.

For example: Did federal priorities in an era of huge tax cuts shortchange New Orleans' storm protection and leave it more vulnerable? This flooding is no surprise to experts. They've been warning for more than 20 years that the levees keeping Lake Pontchartrain from emptying into the under-sea-level city would likely break under the strain of a Category 3 hurricane. Katrina was a Category 4.

So the Crescent City sits under water, much of its population in a state of desperate, dangerous transience, not knowing when they will return home. They're the lucky ones, though. Worse off are those left among the dying in a dying town.

The questions aren't about politics. They are about justice.

***

Minneapolis Star Tribune

But whatever the final toll, the wrenching misery and trauma confronting the people of New Orleans is much greater than it should be -- as it is, in fact, for tens of thousands of people along the strip of Mississippi that was most brutally assaulted by the storm. The immediate goal must be to ease that suffering. The second goal must be to understand how we came to this sorry situation.

How do you justify cutting $250 million in scheduled spending for crucial pump and levee work in the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project (SELA), authorized by Congress in 1995?

How do you explain the almost total lack of coordination among federal, state and local officials both in Louisiana and Mississippi? No one appeared in charge.

***

Des Moines Register

The devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was the first practical test of the new homeland-security arrangements and the second test of President Bush in the face of a national crisis.

The performance of both has been less than stellar so far.

Katrina was a disaster that came with at least two days of warning, and it has been more than four days since the storm struck. Yet on Thursday, refugees still huddled unrescued in the unspeakable misery of the New Orleans Superdome. Patients in hospitals without power and water clung to life in third-world conditions. Untold tragedies lie yet to be discovered in the rural lowlands of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama.


E&P Staff

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#10. To: purpleman (#8)

Rather than sinking Bush, those pictures will cause a realization that government won't be there, hopefully leading to more self-reliance.

You're right. If a woman and her three kids living on $645.00 per month had a lick of sense, they would immediately buy and $400 shotgun, stock the closet with $1000 worth of canned food, buy an SUV for evacuation and park a bass boat in the back yard in case of flood.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-09-02   22:09:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: purpleman (#8)

Patients in hospitals, the sick, the elderly and the very young will NEVER be self-reliant.

OTOH, this has been a VERY revealing look at our govt.

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." – General Smedley Butler

robin  posted on  2005-09-02   22:09:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: crack monkey (#7)

That's why there is, and alwasy has been, such organizations as the National Guard.

That's up to the governors. They sent helicopters with guard relatively recently (I heard them flying down last night from here in VA). Nobody I heard of is dying of thirst, however many people drowned in their houses. If I wemt back a couple years I would open public pools and offer free lessons. There's no excuse for not being able to swim in a city 6 feet below sea level (on average). That way you might even be able to save someone else.

(If you see flies at the entrance to the burrow, the ground hog is probably inside)

purpleman  posted on  2005-09-02   22:10:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: crack monkey (#10)

$400 shotgun, stock the closet with $1000 worth of canned food

Grossly exaggerated. Self-reliance done right is less expensive than living day-to-day shopping at the super market.

(If you see flies at the entrance to the burrow, the ground hog is probably inside)

purpleman  posted on  2005-09-02   22:11:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: robin (#11)

Patients in hospitals, the sick, the elderly and the very young will NEVER be self-reliant.

They would be if they forced themselves to grow younger and healthy again, made money appear out of thin air, used the money to buy guns to hide under their beds, took paramilitary training and stockpiled huge amounts of food.

It's basically all their own fault for not living like a 35 year old survivalist rube hiding out in Arkansas.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-09-02   22:12:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: crack monkey (#10)

You're right. If a woman and her three kids living on $645.00 per month had a lick of sense, they would immediately buy and $400 shotgun, stock the closet with $1000 worth of canned food, buy an SUV for evacuation and park a bass boat in the back yard in case of flood.

That's right.

And we can always count on more lies from FEMA. I heard the first FEMA lie earlier this week. Two women from FEMA on CNN told the press that it was not a "toxic soup" but "just water".

Then two days later FEMA said they did not know there were people at the Convention Center.

Now this:

FEMA chief: Victims bear some responsibility

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." – General Smedley Butler

robin  posted on  2005-09-02   22:13:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: robin (#11)

I agree that the elderly, sick and young need help. But patients? Why on earth does a hospital not have a generator? (I don't think we need a federal program for that).

(If you see flies at the entrance to the burrow, the ground hog is probably inside)

purpleman  posted on  2005-09-02   22:13:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: robin (#1)

he has an ugly mouth.

"You can do everything for other countries but you can't do nothing for your own people. You can go overseas with the military but you can't get them down here."~~New Orleanian

christine  posted on  2005-09-02   22:15:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: purpleman (#13)

Grossly exaggerated. Self-reliance done right is less expensive than living day-to-day shopping at the super market.

I'm not exaggerating a thing. You don't know what you are talking about. This is precisely what a person in this situation lives on. They don't have money to buy cheap starchy food for the month. They certainly don't have any surplus to put aside.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-09-02   22:15:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: purpleman (#16)

Yes, that was folly. Also, there was a hospital w/o stored water.

Do you think the hospital adminstrative staff will be held accountable? Or will they point to running in the red due to illegals and the skyrocketing insurance costs?

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." – General Smedley Butler

robin  posted on  2005-09-02   22:16:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: robin (#15)

I think he was making the point that people didn't believe warnings because they had heard them many times before and nothing happened. It is difficult to get people to leave their homes under any circumstances.

(If you see flies at the entrance to the burrow, the ground hog is probably inside)

purpleman  posted on  2005-09-02   22:17:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: christine (#17)

He sold his soul a long time ago, it shows.

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." – General Smedley Butler

robin  posted on  2005-09-02   22:17:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: robin (#19)

Here's an article about that hospital http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2003-10-07/cover_story.html that suggests that the LA legistlature short-changed them (among other reasons).

(If you see flies at the entrance to the burrow, the ground hog is probably inside)

purpleman  posted on  2005-09-02   22:21:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: robin (#21)

He sold his soul a long time ago, it shows.

Someone on this site once said that it must be really scary to have his heart condition when you know you are going to hell.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-09-02   22:22:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Zipporah (#9)

Funny Cheney has been MIA recently hasnt he?

"I had other priorities in the '60s than military service." - Dick Cheney

Makes you wonder what those priorities might be, given his track record.

"Most of the trouble in this world has been caused by folks who can't mind their own business, because they have no business of their own to mind, any more than a smallpox virus has." - William S. Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2005-09-02   22:25:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: robin (#19)

Or will they point to running in the red due to illegals

No, from the article which I read some more, the working poor got the shaft yet again. My conclusion is getting a generator was way down on their priority list (below giving care) when they got their reduced budget.

(If you see flies at the entrance to the burrow, the ground hog is probably inside)

purpleman  posted on  2005-09-02   22:26:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: robin (#15)

Then two days later FEMA said they did not know there were people at the Convention Center.

The WOPPER of all time in the Universe.

tom007  posted on  2005-09-02   22:30:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: purpleman (#25)

In California many clinics and even hospitals have had to shut down because they could not afford to care for all the illegals the federal govt requires them to help for free.

Without budget problems (for whatever reasons), I'm sure they would have had a generator. Priorities may have also been off. Sometimes hospitals have tough choices to make. Hindsight is always 20/20.

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." – General Smedley Butler

robin  posted on  2005-09-02   22:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: All (#0)

How do you justify cutting $250 million in scheduled spending for crucial pump and levee work in the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project (SELA), authorized by Congress in 1995?

Here's a clue. We just sent Israel almost TEN TIMES THAT AMOUNT so they would leave territory they stole from the Pallies, then destroy the properties. Gotta have lots of money to build that 450 mile long, 40 foot tall, concrete barrier wall. (That could have been useful in New Orleans rather than in a fuckng desert.)

How do you explain the almost total lack of coordination among federal, state and local officials both in Louisiana and Mississippi? No one appeared in charge.

They herded the people into the Superdome with the knowledge that when the storm hit it, the roof would collapse and almost everyone inside would be killed. The benefits were supposed to be threefold:

1. Saves the money and effort of evacuation.
2. Saves the money and effort of dealing with bodies scattered all over the city.
3. Takes "undesirables" off the welfare roles, saving money.

But not much unlike all the best laid plans of the government, it failed when the hurricane weakened and turned to the east.

Imagine the damage to the Superdome if it had been hit head on by a category 5 storm, rather than a glancing blow by a category 3.

The bruthas need to wake up to the fact that if it wasn't for organizations like AIPAC, ADL, JDL, SPLC, etc, lobbying our government to deprive them, then send taxpayer dollars to a foreign country, none of this would've happened.

I'll bet that $340 billion we've pissed away on Israel's war against the Muzzies would've gone a long way towards fixing ALL of the infrastructure problems in this country. But, NO! Can't have any tax dollars actually benefit the citizens.

If a man has nothing that he is willing to die for, then he has nothing worth living for.

Esso  posted on  2005-09-02   22:46:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Esso (#28)

They herded the people into the Superdome with the knowledge that when the storm hit it, the roof would collapse and almost everyone inside would be killed. The benefits were supposed to be threefold:

1. Saves the money and effort of evacuation. 2. Saves the money and effort of dealing with bodies scattered all over the city. 3. Takes "undesirables" off the welfare roles, saving money.

whoa. then it didn't work quite as well as they had hoped.

"You can do everything for other countries but you can't do nothing for your own people. You can go overseas with the military but you can't get them down here."~~New Orleanian

christine  posted on  2005-09-02   22:50:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: robin (#1)

Robin, that is the best post I have seen this week at any site. Thank you.

And the rumors that OilDick was seen at the latest oil spill in the Mississipi with a straw and a napkin around his neck are at best spurious. I think.

Mekons4  posted on  2005-09-02   22:58:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: christine (#29)

whoa. then it didn't work quite as well as they had hoped.

That's why it took four days to even get them some bottled water. They weren't expecting many survivors.

Hell, I could've gone to Sam's Club here in Fort Wayne and driven a semi-load down in two days at the most.

The government deliberately let those people suffer.

If a man has nothing that he is willing to die for, then he has nothing worth living for.

Esso  posted on  2005-09-02   22:59:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Mekons4 (#30)

And the rumors that OilDick was seen at the latest oil spill in the Mississipi with a straw and a napkin around his neck are at best spurious. I think.

Thanks, that's a good mental picture too.

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." – General Smedley Butler

robin  posted on  2005-09-02   23:00:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Lady X (#28)

ping to Esso's post.

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." – General Smedley Butler

robin  posted on  2005-09-02   23:02:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: robin (#33)

The gov have no intentions of rescuing any of these people, they've left to die..

I am so disturbed by this whole situation.

When will we be next and believe me we will be if we don't get pissed off now and demand some sort of accountability..

Lady X  posted on  2005-09-02   23:05:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Lady X (#34)

What is kind of scary is that this would be the perfect time for someone to hit the US. Give the response teams two fires to put out at once. The response to the second disaster would probably be even worse as Bush could claim that his resources were tied up in NO.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-09-02   23:09:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Lady X (#34)

And it is happening right before our eyes. Even the MSM reporters cannot hide their shock nor can they block all the photos/videos/witnesses.

I just don't see how even Rove can spin this to their advantage. It must mean they don't give a damn about the polls anymore. Toward the end, I doubt if Hitler worried much about the polls either. But this time, there are no allied forces to save us.

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." – General Smedley Butler

robin  posted on  2005-09-02   23:11:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: robin (#36)

We have to save ourselves..

Lady X  posted on  2005-09-02   23:12:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: crack monkey (#35)

i hope they're not reading 4. ;)

"You can do everything for other countries but you can't do nothing for your own people. You can go overseas with the military but you can't get them down here."~~New Orleanian

christine  posted on  2005-09-02   23:25:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: crack monkey (#35)

Bush could claim that his resources were tied up in NO.

That's possible, unless it's to the point that the neocons do not even bother making excuses, or care about polls.

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." – General Smedley Butler

robin  posted on  2005-09-02   23:29:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: purpleman (#25)

My conclusion is getting a generator was way down on their priority list (below giving care) when they got their reduced budget.

Charity hospital had two generators and both gave out (it's not like they could hop right out and get more gas). Tulane hospital had one that they kept going by siphoning gas out of cars that were on a high enough level in the parking garage. Problems included no clean water, patients laying in their own feces because there wasn't water to wash the linens.

It's quite easy to sit in the comfort of our own airconditioned, dry homes, with plenty to drink and plenty to eat and Monday morning quarterback. Fact is, people died horrible deaths because the system broke down. One can hope that they did not die in vain and lessons will be learned. I doubt it though. We are fixing to see finger pointing the likes of which we have never seen before.

Of course it hurts, You're getting screwed by an elephant

justlurking  posted on  2005-09-03   0:05:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: crack monkey (#0)

For one, they had 7 days. They knew it was coming.

Secondly, They knew another one could happen in 1944, and for 60 plus years DID NOTHING.

If I hear one more meely mouthed politician say, "No-ones to Blame", or "There's Plenty Of Blame To Go Around"... I swear I'll scream.

You have every fucking politician from the President on down to the Mayor of New Orleans to blame, as well as the fuckers who stayed behind expecting a payoff, or who were too lazy to get up an walk.

The only people I feel compassion for are the children, and the infirm elderly who couldn't get out because they were just unable to. As far as the rest of the able bodied contingent, they have no excuse for not preparing, especially when they knew 7 days in advance a storm was coming.

So many morons, so few bullets.

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2005-09-03   0:43:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: crack monkey, purpleman, robin, tom007 (#10)

You're right. If a woman and her three kids living on $645.00 per month had a lick of sense, they would immediately buy and $400 shotgun, stock the closet with $1000 worth of canned food, buy an SUV for evacuation and park a bass boat in the back yard in case of flood.

How do I put this delicately? I can't.

Poor people are poor because they make dumb decisions, not because life is conspiring against them. I think in your most lucid moments, you'll agree that no one is trying to raise 3 kids on $645 a month. If they are, they're retarded, because McDonald's will pay them 3 times that. Just a few years ago, I remember seeing my local Hardee's hiring anyone at over $14 an hour. Granted, that's probably dropped to $7 to $9 an hour now, but still...

I don't hate poor people. In fact, I'll soon be teaching classes to teach poor people how to build wealth. No, my name is not Tony Robbins, or any other scammer you have at hand. But the fact of the matter is that poor people bring in some decent money--they just blow it right away on shiny toys. When I was a bill collector, I called a lot of truck drivers. Yet a truck driver who's willing to hustle can make $80,000 a year.

In any one of my pawn shops, we look forward to the 1st and 3rd of the month. That's when the eagle shits. And the welfare people, and the SSI recipients, and the Social Security people come in and drop every last dime. They may not even owe me money on a loan--they just come in and load up on stuff. It's not a lack of income--it's a lack of any damn sense of budgeting.

And you can get a plenty good shotgun for $150.

The higher I go, the crookeder it becomes.--Michael Corleone

Indrid Cold  posted on  2005-09-03   1:51:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Indrid Cold (#42)

With respect to your lessons in financial prudence, I think you're missing the point of his post. Society will always have helpless members who will need help. Exactly why they are helpless is not worth discussing while they are dying of dehydration. What is important is that they are helpless and not getting any help. And worse, after being callously herded into unbelieveable conditions they are not being allowed out.

"There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." – General Smedley Butler

robin  posted on  2005-09-03   1:59:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Dakmar (#24)

Funny Cheney has been MIA recently hasnt he?

I've heard that Big Dick is holed up somewhere in Canada. I'll wager that he isn't exactly racing back to DC either.

Deela Kaled  posted on  2005-09-03   2:14:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: robin (#43)

Society will always have helpless members who will need help. Exactly why they are helpless is not worth discussing while they are dying of dehydration. What is important is that they are helpless and not getting any help. And worse, after being callously herded into unbelieveable conditions they are not being allowed out.

Robin,

With all due respect to you:

The post to which I replied lampooned the thought of poor people being able to prepare for disasters or to provide for their own futures. Aside from the retarded, or quadriplegics, I'm afraid I disagree. While society may always have helpless members, it is generally not because God cursed them. [Sometimes it is--I saw the coverage of the tourists stranded in NOLA because the cruise ship dropped them off there].

Typically, poor people are poor because they suck at planning and handling money. Is it their fault? No. They should have been taught the requisite skills in school, or, preferably, by their parents. But in 100 years or public education, I've yet to see an effective class on keeping or generating money. But I digress.

Anyway, my take on the post was that he was talking about the sheer impossibility of a poverty-stricken single mother taking steps to put her family in a better position. I don't buy that. It may be true when they're looking at minimum-wage jobs, but no one says you have to take one of those. By Odin's Beard, you can earn more on eBay than you can at a fry-dippin' job. If they're not educated enough to get a better job than fry dippin', then whose fault is that? Certainly not mine. I've got my own 2 kids to pay for. Sister, we're all pushin' as hard as we can.

The higher I go, the crookeder it becomes.--Michael Corleone

Indrid Cold  posted on  2005-09-03   2:49:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Indrid Cold (#45)

Aside from the retarded, or quadriplegics, I'm afraid I disagree.

Why do you think it is just the poor who are trapped in New Orleans?

And why do you only give a pass to the retarded and paralyzed?

There were/are people in hospitals, elderly, and children. As you point out a cruise ship dropped people off.

After the govt encouraged and herded thousands (a 2 mile long line) of those least able to protect themselves into the superdome, they left them there unprotected and without food, water, sanitation or a way out for days. Last night Geraldo was screaming into the camera to "get these people out". After all this time, still no busses, and they won't let them leave.

There are 3,000 students, along with others waiting and sleeping on I-10. Many tried to get out ahead of the storm but the roads were jammed. Katrina is the most mis-predicted storm in history. It is not the first hurricane to hit New Orleans and many thought they could ride it out like before.

In 90 degree heat plus humidity, dehydration is taking its toll, on all.

It's wonderful that you take pride in being self-reliant, but what is the harm in showing a little compassion and empathy? I don't understand such harsh words of reproach for those victims lacking good life skills and planning, even while they are still trapped, suffering and dying.

"The final measure of any civilization is how it treats its weakest members."

robin  posted on  2005-09-03   7:55:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Indrid Cold, crack monkey, purpleman, robin, tom007 (#42)

Poor people are poor because they make dumb decisions, not because life is conspiring against them.

Tell that to the masses of college educated engineers that can't find work because most of the jobs in their field are now in China or India, or are filled by Chinese and Indians here on H1-B visas, here purportedly due to a "lack of American workers".

I think in your most lucid moments, you'll agree that no one is trying to raise 3 kids on $645 a month. If they are, they're retarded, because McDonald's will pay them 3 times that.

Let's see, 3 x $645 = $1935. $1935 / 4 weeks / month = 483.73 / week $483.73 / 40 hours = $12.10 / hour.

Now WHAT McDonalds pays $12.10/hour? McDonalds pays at most $6/hour, half of what you claim. That would result in a figure of $960 / month before taxes, roughly $768/month after taxes. That's with no health insurance or any other benefit.

If the mother went on welfare however, she'd get that $645/month, plus about $350 in food stamps, plus free medical for her and her kids, plus free lunch for her kids at school, plus fuel assistance, plus Section 8 housing assistance.

Now why should she work at McDonald's?

FormerLurker  posted on  2005-09-03   12:39:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: FormerLurker (#47)

I think in your most lucid moments, you'll agree that no one is trying to raise 3 kids on $645 a month. If they are, they're retarded, because McDonald's will pay them 3 times that.

i have personally dealt with hundreds, and perhaps thousands, who are doing precisely that.

That is the problem with ignorant ideologs. You try to defend your position without even knowing what you are talking about. It's obvious that you have a very strong opinion on this subject but have absolutely no experience here and no facts to work with - just the unsupported opinions that Rush and Hannity stuffed into your head during the period when you were lapping up every particle of shit they fed you, e.g., pre 2000.

Here is something that will help you in every asepect of your life: first look at the facts and then form an opinion. Don't let Rush form the opinion for you and then go about inventing facts to support the opinion that Rush stuffed into your head.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-09-03   13:02:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Indrid Cold (#42)

Poor people are poor because they make dumb decisions, not because life is conspiring against them.

See the above post. It was directed to you.

It's obvious you live a very insulated life in some midwestern small town. I have dealt with hundreds of people who have lost everything through no fault of thier own. The last case was a 65 year old man who sold everything he had to pay for his wife's cancer treatment. He had been a very successful fisherman and still owned a boat and a house that probably execeeded the net worth of your hock shop many times over. He had very good health insurance. The treatments were so expensive he lost everything before any type of assistance kicked in. He now lives in a residence hotel on $900 per month.

I know another woman with a child affected with mucopolysacardosis. She pays three to four thousand a month in medical bills and, as a result, has nothing.

I know many, many people who have done everything right and have lost their homes and businesses through no fault of thier own. I think we will see more as time goes by.

I see you gloat on this site about your superiority as you set yourself up to prey on these people. You shouldn't too hard on them. Without their misfortune, there wouldn't be any blood for you to suck.

crack monkey  posted on  2005-09-03   13:10:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: crack monkey (#48)

I think in your most lucid moments, you'll agree that no one is trying to raise 3 kids on $645 a month. If they are, they're retarded, because McDonald's will pay them 3 times that.

Er, I'm not the one that posted the above comment, it was the poster that I responded to that did. If anything, I agree with you.

FormerLurker  posted on  2005-09-03   13:11:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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